Faustian Transgression

This is the place to discuss Salvia divinorum, splendins, and the other psychoactive salvias.
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Faustian Transgression

Post by Hyperion » Sat Jan 07, 2017 2:07 am

"There is a doctrine uttered in secret that a man is a prisoner who has no right to open the door to his prison and run away; this is a great mystery which I do not understand. Yet I too, believe that the gods are our guardians, and that we are a possession of theirs. ...And if one of your possessions, an ox or an ass, for example took the liberty of putting himself out of the way when you had given no intimation of your wish that he should die, would you not be angry with him, and would you not punish him if you could?" - Socrates

I think that although Salvia may show you certain things that mere mortal's are not supposed to see I have a very strong feeling, an intuition if you will, that this substance (especially high doses) is somehow seriously damaging oneself spiritually in some form and that this will lead to dire Karmik/Spiritual repercussions down the road. When I say seriously I mean this is implicating not your existence in this dimension which is inconsequential in comparison but the eternal part of you, your soul.

I have read many trip reports where people feel extreme 'guilt', 'shame' or 'regret' for some reason, as if they know somehow they have made a huge spiritual blunder akin to accidentally killing someone by recklessly playing with a pistol. Some kind of transgression has been made as if normally you are protected via a reality mask of some sort and Salvia forcefully rips that mask off to the detriment of one's spiritual safety:

"..but I began to feel great shame, like I’d done something beyond naughty! Like I had crossed a line one should never cross, caused a cosmic violation. It was so emotionally intense and unexpected that I felt violated."

"... I began to realize that I was the cause of everything wrong in there land, like an evil king who ruined there eternal lives."

"...but felt a sense of shame of my naked mind."

An analogy which I will use is the caterpillar chrysalis, this chrysalis is designed to protect and nurture the caterpillar until he is mature enough to finally metamorphose into a butterfly. This dimension/reality is like that chrysalis and Salvia does something akin to puncturing and tearing this chrysalis open before it is meant to be opened, prematurely tearing it asunder. The existential shock, guilt and terror is realizing on some fundamental level one has made a grave mistake.

"I am all that has been and is and shall be; and no mortal has ever lifted my mantle."


Although this Veil is meant to be removed (perhaps through some spiritual discipline in a safe manner), removing it when one is not spiritually developed is akin to destroying some aspect of your spiritual being, one is not prepared, ready or spiritually powerful enough for this level of illumination or revelation. I do have a strong conviction that certain things are off limits to humanity, mostly for their own well being and protection. Saliva I feel takes one deeper and further then any psychedelic out there but the multiverse is a very very big place and not all forces and intelligences out there have mankind's best interests at heart.

I have read hundreds of reports and my feeling or an analogy if you will is that Salvia is akin to playing with Ultra High Voltage wires or skipping atop a high rise building unaware of the reprecussions of gravity.

"I felt a great sense of Deja Vu come over me. I was somewhere that I had been before. It was a place that I shouldn't have come back to. I heard no voices and saw no people. I could hardly open my eyes for more than a couple of seconds at a time. I was in a place where I was exposed to the the whole world. A million eyes were watching my every move. I was being stretched out and integrated into my surroundings. It was punishment. I was being punished for coming back to this place. As if I had first came into existence by being ripped out of an inanimate object. I was never born. I never had any real memories of childhood.

This was the secret that I had stumbled upon. The secret was that myself, and everyone for that matter, had come to our "normal" world from another "not so normal" world. I was being punished for discovering the truth. I felt a presence watching over me in judgment. Not one "person", like God, but a group of "people" that sat and made decisions about people's fates. I became aware that I had returned to where I had originated from and had broken some kind of "law" for doing so. My sentence was to be placed back into the inanimate world. I was being stretched and began fusing together with something (the passenger side door, perhaps). Terrible dread. Enormous fear. Words couldn't, and still can't, describe the horror. I pulled and strained and struggled...and then it was over. I woke up."

But it's more then just that, there is a force and intelligence behind this substance, something immensely powerful, powerful to the extent a black hole is powerful. Forget what the scientists say, forget what the Mazatecs say about this being the embodiment of the Virgin Mary. This is some kind of reptillian, medusa, snake like power far more powerful and sinister. The shredding, reality splintering, world peeling, head splitting effects that many people taking this drug encounter to me signify something like this: you are playing with powers magnitudes above what mankind can ever fathom or understand and these powers are not at all necessarily benevolent, this is extremely serious stuff.

Something very Faustian is occurring by forcing oneself into these states, something very real and dangerous is happening in these realms, something akin to the corruption, degradation or possibly the maiming or destruction of one's soul.

As I sat there, eyes closed, I remember thinking “this stuff isn’t working today. I don’t want to be at the carnival. I want to go a mystical journey.” Pause. Then: “What carnival? I’m not at a carnival, I’m at home. What the hell was I thinking?” Another pause. Then: “Am I at a carnival?” Sure enough, as it turned out, I was.

Behind me, though I did not look, was a crazy wall of colors, a riot of plastic and old style tin toys making up the entire reality behind me. It was indeed a carnival, a fun-house twisted reality of menacing clowns and cheap plastic and tin. I knew this “carnival” was there, though I did not turn to look, and knew what it looked like, though I did not see. The sense of it was utterly convincing, the sounds and smells even creeping into my (previous) consensus reality. At that point, a presence entered the “space.” This presence was beckoning me to turn around, look, and come and play in the carnival. I was frozen in place.

I cannot properly convey in words the sense of foreboding and raw evil that I sensed. There is a God, He is very much real. There are demons also, and they are very much real. I had my back turned to a demon, and I was in his playground. I must stress here that I am by nature a very rational and logical person, not prone to superstition and whatnot. I am also humble enough to accept that there are realms of reality that are not readily apparent and that we have not (should not?) visit.

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Re: Faustian Transgression

Post by unsigned_char72 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 7:01 am

I have the exact opposite feeling/intuition, my hunch is that Salvia is inherently benevolent and is here for our good. But it's just my intuition, sprout from my personal relationship with this amazing plant.

I can relate to your description of "guilt", "danger", SWIM himself has experienced it many times. The recurrent theme is that SWIM disturbs Salvia people from what they are doing (usually making the wheel rotate), they get angry and sometimes they scold SWIM harshly, but overall they are not too worried, sometimes they are even gentle and talkative.

My guess is that the experience of danger associated to having "lifted the veil" is nothing but a defence mechanism Salvia uses to keep unworthy people at a distance.
I am all that has been and is and shall be; and no mortal has ever lifted my mantle.
I have my personal interpretation of this quote: lifting the veil means realizing there is no "I", no separate self. When you realize that, you are no longer a mortal because there is none that can die. "Whoever finds the meaning of these words will not taste death."

Joined:Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:22 pm

Re: Faustian Transgression

Post by ckeen » Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:39 pm

Mhhm could it be that you are both right?

yes, our body and our restricted senses seem to protect us from the overwhelmment "out there"
yet it is unique to the human spirit that he challenges these boundaries.
It is all over the old myth's from the garden of eden to prometheus.

Sally may be an ally in this case

i guess there is a reason that in the indigenous usage, one had to learn for long time
and in an upright manner before he could come to "her" place at will.

it is a relationship between the plant and the human that has to be established cautiously.
Via this relationship humans can slowly access designated places behind the veil guided by sd
i feel that the plant spirit does also benefit from the visits, maybe even feed on some part
of our transdimensional "body" that can regrow, or something like that

And if some poor soul rushes through the veil with the lightspeed of an extract, sd may not be willing or able
help them anymore – and then they are deep in the multiverse without knowledge or protection, vulnerable
to whatever may lurk there


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