Can the salvia effect ever be had without the salvia plant?

[hawaiianbabywoodrose]

i wonder If its possible that some peoples natural neurochemistry can allow for salvia like perspectives even without the plant.

we know salvia has activity at the k opioid and d2 receptors.

do you think its possible that there are some people that during certain circumstances, are able to enter that same place even without the plant?

maybe theres someone in a mental institution who is having salvia like effects due to some natural neuro chemical 'imbalance'

what do you think?

[FrenchMachine]

Can the salvia effect ever be had without Salvinorin A? Simple answer...NO!

Not possible. End of discussion.

Thread closed!

[Raa]

Soon we'll be able to create portals to salvialand during exciting real life conversations ?

What is real life anyways, I thought we were creating the portal to the earth, not to the salvialand.

lmao

It's been a year now and they grow real slow.... If I had no frost accident, I'd have a forest by now. Mama we're batshit crazy without your hands in my noisy head

[tushaar]

Yet haven't you felt? She told me, why I truly never remember any "salvia's" once I activate this activity - It only opens our "third eye", Where salvia takes us - It is always there, it isn't created out of a plant. Argue what you may, this will remain my opinion, the feeling is strong. What I dare to answer from my own mind, is that you probably have been, at the "place of salvia". Just between the times of birth?(before???) and growing yourself an ego. Keep tripping on those childhood memories The first step of remembering.

[Metanoian]

I think given the right circumstances it could be possible. Many years of deep, deep meditation, isolation, fasting, self-flagellation, etc.

Psychedelics are just a shortcut.

[FrenchMachine]

Psychedelics are just a shortcut.

No, not at all. Psychedelics/Chems/Substances are the KEY. Even McKenna talked about this in the past when he talked shit about the "mystics" and "gurus" and "yogis" who claimed they could reach these states of mind without the use of drugs/chems/substances/plants/etc.

I will never believe a human being who will say (a.k.a. lie) that he can reach these states of mind without the use of the drug. If that was the case, people all over the place would be doing this willy-nilly and nobody would be wasting money on any drug. It's the equivalent of those religious putos who claim they "talk to GOD".

Like I said earlier...END OF THE FUCKIN' DISCUSSION, BOY!!!!

THREAD CLOSED! DONT MAKE ME GET MY BUDDY DALE OUT HERE, HE'LL BRING SOME OF HIS SURFACE-TO-AIR STUFF AND WE'LL GO OUT HUNTIN' SOME MOOSE & DUCKS!!!

Sorry, been listening to Bill Burr too much lately and he is my idol.

[peoploid]

maybe theres someone in a mental institution who is having salvia like effects due to some natural neuro chemical 'imbalance'

Nurse Ratched - "Randle, are you with us?"
Randle McMurphy - "Whaa? Oh, man. I musta blacked out for a second. What were we talkin about again?"
Nurse Ratched glared intently at Randle - "We were talking about your mother."
Randle - "Oh yeah. Shit. I remember now. We were talking about when ma disappeared on me. Left me without ever coming back."
Nurse Ratched - "Describe what happened again for us, Randle."

Randle ran his fingers through his hair - "Yeah, she split on me. We were sitting in the kitchen and she exploded into a hundred different people. Then we started rolling, all of us, down some hill in a kitchen ball. A FUCKING KITCHEN BALL. I remember looking at my mom's face. She was trying to tell me something - like she was going away and never coming back. And then the whole kitchen collapsed in on itself. I saw my mom's face get squeezed together. It cracked, and blood and puss came squirting out. Then the whole kitchen squeezed together, and I never saw her fucking face again."

Nurse Ratched - "Thank you, Randle. Who wants to be next?"

[SalviaDroid]

We know psychedelics are the Key to the door that is our receptors.. We have been told that the door should remain shut at all times by our culture.. but it would be short sighted to think that the door by any means is locked and can only be opened with the Key..

Either way dissociative's like Salvorin Alpha give me deeper insight to what those with dementia or other mental disorders must go through. I feel more sympathetic towards them.

[Metanoian]

Psychedelics are just a shortcut.

No, not at all. Psychedelics/Chems/Substances are the KEY. Even McKenna talked about this in the past when he talked shit about the "mystics" and "gurus" and "yogis" who claimed they could reach these states of mind without the use of drugs/chems/substances/plants/etc.

I will never believe a human being who will say (a.k.a. lie) that he can reach these states of mind without the use of the drug. If that was the case, people all over the place would be doing this willy-nilly and nobody would be wasting money on any drug. It's the equivalent of those religious putos who claim they "talk to GOD".

I'm not devaluing psychedelics in any way. Neither am I devaluing spiritual practices. I do tend to agree with Terence that these experiences are an essential part of being human. That everyone should at least be allowed to pursue these kinds of experiences without intervention from governments. I believe it was Graham Hancock who said something like, "Every politician should be required to drink Ayahuasca ten times before taking office." I strongly agree with that.

But if someone wants to avoid all drugs and sit under a tree and meditate their whole life, that's their choice. And I do believe they can achieve similar states that psychedelics users access. Saying that they're all full of it is exactly how many people view psychedelic users. Most people would claim that it's all a fantasy, a hallucination, that none of the psychedelic experience is real. It's all in your head. It's meaningless. That's how it's viewed, and that's how you're viewing those who claim to achieve these mystical states without the help of psychedelics. Just felt I should point that out

Either way dissociative's like Salvorin Alpha give me deeper insight to what those with dementia or other mental disorders must go through. I feel more sympathetic towards them.

Same here. I definitely have gained a better perspective on mental illness since using things like Salvia. It is a sort of controlled madness in a way. I've always been fascinated with psychology and mental illness.

[jackaroe]

[I will never believe a human being who will say (a.k.a. lie) that he can reach these states of mind without the use of the drug. If that was the case, people all over the place would be doing this willy-nilly and nobody would be wasting money on any drug. It's the equivalent of those religious putos who claim they "talk to GOD".

LOL, I just saw a film Spiritual Revolution and many of the main teachers, Guru's, and "enlightened" people did claim they started with psychedelics. In fact, I applaud the film for keeping that in. I've alway found it blasphemous that some of these teachers made a career out of spiritual teachings but NEGLECT to mention they got there by starting with psychedelics. How can that be left out? These guys are stating that meditating for years and years is better more genuine than a psychedelic. I admit, years ago I also believed that but also tripped at times (as I am sure these "teachers" do without mentioning it). But I changed my mind on that notion, and I sort of gravitate toward McKenna and his India experience rather than someone who says they stopped psychedelics and follow a Guru. In fact, I know a persons vibration can change a room, but I have NEVER met another human being that had me falling at their feet claiming I never felt so much peace. I've had psychedelics do that.

And thank you T McKenna for calling bypassing psychedelics for spiritual growth cultural taboo. Hey, I have meditated for years and still do. It calms, centeres, makes one control the mind more, but it is NOTHING like taking mushrooms.

Now saying that, since this post is about Salvia maybe the OP meant stimulating some kappa receptors may produce something similar to Salvia. Maybe. It's a great question. But when it comes to people in "New Age" sectors claiming they graduated psychedelics and just meditate and do Yoga my patience goes out the window. I feel like Owsley talking to Kesey when Kesey said they would graduate past acid (I know it was just for props back then) and Kesey saying we can do this without the drugs. Owsley replied "Bullshit, it's the drugs that do it!". And I subscribe to that. Nothing wrong with spiritual practices and meditation, but I would be disappointed in myself if I blindly believed that these states can be reached without the chemical overide.

Frenchmachine, thanks for making my day. I don't mice words either.

Dioxipuss, since I am not a member at the Nexus I can at least tell you here, I love your posts. It seems some of the heavy hitters and some of the people I relate to most are the ones that were at this board too.