Salvia popularity in steep decline?

This is the place to discuss Salvia divinorum, splendins, and the other psychoactive salvias.
Jupe
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Jupe » Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:51 am

..great posts.....thanx for that Sawyer link Sphere...interesting guy.........I was thinking about the Tibetans...and other meditators...who seem, almost by strength of will...... to understand these concepts.....(our place here)........almost as if a "person" could stabilize their own "Ones and Zeroes" and make it through the death cycle........

us salvianauts(well I used to be one)...perhaps we stumbled across a short cut, although short circuit may be more apt, since it seems so hard to bring anything back

........I'm mostly agnostic, alternating with cycles of bummed atheism....haha...and "somewhat" belief is "something".......I mean...shit......INFINITY?????and here I AM...typing a note to some friends......just makes me more clueless.

Anyways, you guys are cool ..you guys are my study group!!

Jupe

Sphere
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:13 pm

From what I can tell, the reason we continue to exist after death is due to quantum entanglement, since the brain seems to be more of a receiver than seat of consciousness, it appears our consciousness is within a field surrounding the brain, perhaps the brain accesses it through some small tubules which can act on a quantum level; the latest theory, but the consciousness itself some kind of energy field which does not disappear or dissipate into nothingness because time does not exist on one level, the place our consciousness goes to after death. If time ceases to exist, there is no reason for consciousness to cease to exist either. I've been studying NDE's or Near Death Exeriences where medical emergencies have caused peoples spirits (that quantum entangled energy field) go to when their bodies won't hold them anymore and those experiences convince me to believe in the afterlife. I think there is a afterlife and a God but nothing to do with religions, due to physics.

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Metanoian
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Metanoian » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:22 am

I've also been immensely interested in NDE's and OBE's since I knew what they were :) Read countless books and watched every documentary/show I could find on the subject. I've had OBE's many times as a child, and as I grew older, from psychedelics. I've always believed in an afterlife, first from the religious dogma that I was taught, then on my own due to experiences like these.

I've grown out of the whole religious hang up, if I ever really bought into it to begin with? I'm not sure. But I've always been a very spiritual person and the atheist's view is a rather bleak and unfriendly one. There is no real hard proof either way at this point, life after death or not. That's what makes life so mysterious, it's all up to interpretation. It's good to be alive! But when my time comes, as it does for us all, I'm sure I'll meet death with eyes wide open.
Pulled and kneaded like salt water taffy.

Interconnecting peoploids, like tinker toy ferris wheels, rotating counterclockwise for eternity.

Sphere
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:32 pm

Dioxippus, I didn't become interested in NDE's until I had an OBE myself, at least, what I think was one but it was more NDE-like as I seemed a magnatude more aware at that time than in normal waking reality and the experience changed me. As I wrote here before, it was that OBE which drew me to have interest in Salvia, as a vision inducing plant. Initially, when searching for a substance which could induce visions, I happened upon a radio interview of Terrence and from that I dearly wanted to investigate the substance he is well known for having explored himself, but since that material was and still is highly illegal, I went the Salvia route instead. This was prior to the year 2000 when Salvia wasn't being regulated anywhere yet (that I knew of). Unfortunately, since then Salvia has become controlled in many states, but fortunately, it isn't yet controlled on a federal level in the USA, maybe that won't happen but I'm so far out of the loop on that scene I have no idea which direction it is going with the feds now.

I'm running out of new information on NDE's, I've researched this subject for so many years and dug so deeply on the internet for stories about peoples NDE's it's rare that I find new information, but if you haven't found it yet, try this link for weekly afterlife articles: http://www.victorzammit.com/week11chess - If you subscribe to the online newsletter you will get a new link each Friday.

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skunkjar
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by skunkjar » Fri Nov 23, 2012 6:08 pm

Unfortunitely the good lady salvia never seemed to accept my presence so I gave up pretty early on. I didn't mind fresh salvia leaf buccal, but to smoke any extract was a no-no in my book after the first couple rounds...

Another reason I would attribute some of the decline in salvias popularity is the relative ease with which jeruma is aquired and extracted. DMT is a much friendlier way to shatter ones ego.

Sphere
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Sat Nov 24, 2012 10:24 pm

These are just my current opinions, right or wrong and would never seek to impose my opinions on others on how reality should be for them:

Due to our current political climate, it seems difficult for people to obtain that friendlier entheogen online anymore but there are so many other plants to obtain the desired compound from that I don't think that a complete disappearance of commercially available RB will completely hold the lid down on it, if someone were persistent enough in their searches and willing to travel, they can get something which will work. In the past, I used to think that having these plants and extraction methods easily available was a good thing, but anymore I have reversed my thoughts on it, making something easy draws too many crowds who may not use the plants respectfully and cause them to get a bad name. Anymore, I see a value of keeping sources and methods for the most sacred plants more underground, this due to the low-life individuals who give them a bad reputation by posting sensational videos online where they act out in tasteless and threatening ways which can scare people who don't really know for themselves the problem is far more due to the character of that individual and not the substance itself, such foolishness mostly due to their own immaturity rather than the plants effects alone. Unfortunately, such acts are seen as being an effect of the plant, from that producing fear in the public who don't know better and the eventual use of law enforcement to take those freedoms away from them, restricting the more sacred entheogens from the people who do respect them, who would use them wisely to their and others benefits by sharing their insights, and worse, such laws then making a criminal out of someone who is purely interested in these plants for spiritual pursuits alone which are highly ethical acts.

If some of these substances and or plants were harder to get then the seekers who are still willing to invest in the path with some work, can still obtain their entheogens privately through communities rather than through a web site, as honorable as some of the vendors are and who certainly have good intent too. For now, I think this is probably best, to keep things more underground and out of the potential spotlight, keeping sources for some of these plants and the methods to extract the most sacred entheogens which are a target is what I think should be more guarded (of course, impossible to do with the internet, once posted), but the spreading of information about the positive effects should be openly shared as much as possible by those who do it well. The reason I am of this opinion now is because I've been completely off-line in the community for several years and coming back am saddened to see how our freedoms have eroded since then and can see that in the past I did wrong by being far too free with some extraction information and believe such has caused harm, unfortunately. Maybe it doesn't really matter now and that same information being openly shared won't do more harm, but if I could do it over again, I would do it differently. Perhaps I am not seeing some of the good which came of it which in time, may open up a broader vista as people share their experiences, right now I can't tell.

Skunkjar, I haven't used salvia, or any entheogen for many years now, but can say this from my own experience and reports I've read from others, that with salvia it can take many attempts before you have a vision, plain leaf can do it, but I think it may take many sessions to become sensitized to it enough for that to happen, even with "enhanced" leaf which is artificially made stronger, this can be true too, it was for me. I tried a dozen times with 5X leaf before I saw anything but once I did, it was awesome. There was a member named RedGreenVines who used to make a tea out of Salvia which worked for him, but he also believed himself to be sensitive to salvinorin. Even if you are not sensitive to this substance, it appears there is a reverse tollerence for such, that the more you use it, the more sensitive you become and even so called hard heads can eventually get to a place where a vision can occur with a normal amount of leaf, enhanced or not, smoked or not. Tincture is another way to go which has been effective for many, but rather harsh on the delicate membranes of the mouth.

"All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves."
~ Bill Hicks

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Metanoian
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Metanoian » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:20 am

Sphere wrote:Dioxippus, I didn't become interested in NDE's until I had an OBE myself, at least, what I think was one but it was more NDE-like as I seemed a magnatude more aware at that time than in normal waking reality and the experience changed me. As I wrote here before, it was that OBE which drew me to have interest in Salvia, as a vision inducing plant. Initially, when searching for a substance which could induce visions, I happened upon a radio interview of Terrence and from that I dearly wanted to investigate the substance he is well known for having explored himself, but since that material was and still is highly illegal, I went the Salvia route instead. This was prior to the year 2000 when Salvia wasn't being regulated anywhere yet (that I knew of). Unfortunately, since then Salvia has become controlled in many states, but fortunately, it isn't yet controlled on a federal level in the USA, maybe that won't happen but I'm so far out of the loop on that scene I have no idea which direction it is going with the feds now.

I'm running out of new information on NDE's, I've researched this subject for so many years and dug so deeply on the internet for stories about peoples NDE's it's rare that I find new information, but if you haven't found it yet, try this link for weekly afterlife articles: http://www.victorzammit.com/week11chess - If you subscribe to the online newsletter you will get a new link each Friday.
My experience is much the same as yours. I think those OBE's as a child, and also lucid dreaming, was a precursor for me desiring to explore these psychedelic states. I had many mushroom and LSD experiences and also experienced Iboga once as a teenager, which was a very profound and healing experience. From there I began reading about all manner of psychedelics, DMT always being on the top of the list. Salvia was easily found and available when I decided to get back into the scene so to speak. Since then there's been no turning back :)

Thank you for the link, it's much appreciated. I haven't researched NDE/OBE's in some time.
Pulled and kneaded like salt water taffy.

Interconnecting peoploids, like tinker toy ferris wheels, rotating counterclockwise for eternity.

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Metanoian
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Metanoian » Sun Nov 25, 2012 2:37 am

Sphere wrote:These are just my current opinions, right or wrong and would never seek to impose my opinions on others on how reality should be for them:

Due to our current political climate, it seems difficult for people to obtain that friendlier entheogen online anymore but there are so many other plants to obtain the desired compound from that I don't think that a complete disappearance of commercially available RB will completely hold the lid down on it, if someone were persistent enough in their searches and willing to travel, they can get something which will work. In the past, I used to think that having these plants and extraction methods easily available was a good thing, but anymore I have reversed my thoughts on it, making something easy draws too many crowds who may not use the plants respectfully and cause them to get a bad name. Anymore, I see a value of keeping sources and methods for the most sacred plants more underground, this due to the low-life individuals who give them a bad reputation by posting sensational videos online where they act out in tasteless and threatening ways which can scare people who don't really know for themselves the problem is far more due to the character of that individual and not the substance itself, such foolishness mostly due to their own immaturity rather than the plants effects alone. Unfortunately, such acts are seen as being an effect of the plant, from that producing fear in the public who don't know better and the eventual use of law enforcement to take those freedoms away from them, restricting the more sacred entheogens from the people who do respect them, who would use them wisely to their and others benefits by sharing their insights, and worse, such laws then making a criminal out of someone who is purely interested in these plants for spiritual pursuits alone which are highly ethical acts.

If some of these substances and or plants were harder to get then the seekers who are still willing to invest in the path with some work, can still obtain their entheogens privately through communities rather than through a web site, as honorable as some of the vendors are and who certainly have good intent too. For now, I think this is probably best, to keep things more underground and out of the potential spotlight, keeping sources for some of these plants and the methods to extract the most sacred entheogens which are a target is what I think should be more guarded (of course, impossible to do with the internet, once posted), but the spreading of information about the positive effects should be openly shared as much as possible by those who do it well. The reason I am of this opinion now is because I've been completely off-line in the community for several years and coming back am saddened to see how our freedoms have eroded since then and can see that in the past I did wrong by being far too free with some extraction information and believe such has caused harm, unfortunately. Maybe it doesn't really matter now and that same information being openly shared won't do more harm, but if I could do it over again, I would do it differently. Perhaps I am not seeing some of the good which came of it which in time, may open up a broader vista as people share their experiences, right now I can't tell.

Skunkjar, I haven't used salvia, or any entheogen for many years now, but can say this from my own experience and reports I've read from others, that with salvia it can take many attempts before you have a vision, plain leaf can do it, but I think it may take many sessions to become sensitized to it enough for that to happen, even with "enhanced" leaf which is artificially made stronger, this can be true too, it was for me. I tried a dozen times with 5X leaf before I saw anything but once I did, it was awesome. There was a member named RedGreenVines who used to make a tea out of Salvia which worked for him, but he also believed himself to be sensitive to salvinorin. Even if you are not sensitive to this substance, it appears there is a reverse tollerence for such, that the more you use it, the more sensitive you become and even so called hard heads can eventually get to a place where a vision can occur with a normal amount of leaf, enhanced or not, smoked or not. Tincture is another way to go which has been effective for many, but rather harsh on the delicate membranes of the mouth.

"All matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration. We are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively. There is no such thing as death, life is a dream, and we're the imagination of ourselves."
~ Bill Hicks
I can definitely see your point of view, especially coming back after several years and seeing the state of things. I think your idea is probably best to preserve the plants and our freedom to use them. But in reality, this reality anyhow, people simply cannot keep quiet about these experiences. They're so mind blowing that they just have to share their experience and seek others who have also experienced it to tell them "sure, that's normal."

I really wish things had happened differently, but with the way the world is at present, I knew it was only a matter of time. Salvia, thankfully, isn't as pleasant as some other entheogens. Like you said, it also takes patience and persistence to really glean some insight from this plant. Thankfully most people have the attention span of a five year old and simply won't devote themselves enough to a plant which isn't very pleasant or euphoric to begin with. It can actually be rather uncomfortable, and very bizarre. I smile as I'm typing this, because I know it's these attributes which have saved it from being completely outlawed. A built in defense mechanism that is perfect for our day and age.

The visions I've had from Salvia rival those I've had with any other entheogen. It is without a doubt the most powerful entheogen I've explored. And it's more than simply the power of the visions, it's the relationship that it forces you to cultivate. A kinship, a friendship, a familial bond. Even as I type this, I go back to your words and realize, maybe I shouldn't say such things. Maybe my words will prompt someone else to explore it, the wrong person, and that puts the plant and my freedom to use it in danger. But I reiterate, we can't help ourselves! The experience is so profound that we wish to scream it from the rooftops, proclaiming how awesome of a force it is, and how it is something that could greatly aid in helping our world make the changes it so desperately needs.


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Interconnecting peoploids, like tinker toy ferris wheels, rotating counterclockwise for eternity.

Sphere
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:22 am

Hi, I do fully agree about sharing the insights from the experience, the experiences themselves are great and sharing them is a good thing, the problem which causes me pause are the immature teens and even adults who put hyped up outlandish videos and stories online making a truely wonderful entheogenic plant appear to be a threat to the public. I just think too many insincere people got ahold of the plant too soon and made specticles of themselves.

I can't personally compare Salvia with other entheogens, I haven't had the liberty to try anything else due to personal circumstances, the desire is there but I probably have to wait until I retire. Fortunately, that isn't so far off anymore, a few more years, I hope.

Bill Hix was so cool, I didn't know of him when he was alive, but wow... I think he is right, it's just a ride, an interactive one.

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tushaar
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by tushaar » Sun Nov 25, 2012 11:17 am

I agree with the above, but let's be honest, it's the last time/chance for people to wake the f**k up. The world is going for a "One world order" and all this will be mainly just another program. People work, do their routine, blahblahblah.... It's a slim and risky path, but let's be honest, once this greedy planet is all set up, you think they are going to give you a chance to "gain insight peacefully at your home?
Waking up, true, requires a lot of effort and coordination to this "world under anasthesia" but those experiences are truly a great help. I think it's mandatory and humane to give EVERY self-aware being a chance to wake up and see the system for what it is.

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