Salvia popularity in steep decline?

This is the place to discuss Salvia divinorum, splendins, and the other psychoactive salvias.
Sphere
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Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:50 pm

I don't hear much about Salvia on the news anymore, is its past interest to people in decline?

regulater
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by regulater » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:25 am

Well I think when it was first really popular on the news, lots of different parties were concerned about how dangerous it was. I think by now, they know more about the plant and the effects. I think the fact that there has been nothing, and the drug law is in limbo, shows that they have relaxed on it alot more.

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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Sun Oct 28, 2012 8:34 am

Glad to hear it, I've been out of the loop for several years. Thanks.

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Metanoian
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Metanoian » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:57 am

They've turned some attention towards MHRB it seems. Lots of vendors being shutdown. Salvia was something very interesting for people, but not in the long run. It takes serious patience and dedication to be a true Salvianaut. It almost never is a comfy ride. But the same could be said about life, couldn't it.
Pulled and kneaded like salt water taffy.

Interconnecting peoploids, like tinker toy ferris wheels, rotating counterclockwise for eternity.

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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by salvialover24 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:55 am

Salvia is not appetent. It makes its effect, but makes you forget it. Despite SWIM loves it, it always asks some effort to do the experience. it is a drug that you can easily procrastinate. Only those with genuine interest in non standard views on reality keep going, I think. It is a good thing, imo, that it does not become too much popular, so that it does not attract too much the attention of the prohibitionists. Also, like iboga, for some people one toke is enough. You don't need to do "life-changing" experiences all the time. Yet, small amount of it can still be useful for curing some health problem. It is better and safer than aspirin or paracetamol, in swim's opinion.

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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by burningmouth » Tue Nov 06, 2012 8:39 am

Image
http://www.psychointegrator.com/2009/03 ... -benefits/

Yeah. I would say interest in salvia is in decline. My interest in salvia has declined dramatically because of salvia's increasingly negative effect on my blood pump.

I was hoping that the salvia phenomenon would explode from within salvia's own place in hyperspace, and that the shock wave would permeate into our everyday, material world. But no such luck.

I guess salvia's popularity doesn't really matter for those who grow the plants for their own personal use. As long as someone can snip off a few leaves and go off into salvia space, the popularity issue doesn't really matter.

I'll know in around 18 hours if Washington state legalizes marijuana. It looks like Colorado and Washington will legalize it. The wild card is how the Fed will react. I think it's possible the Federal government will sit back and see if Colorado and Washington can lay down the proper social and economic infrastructure allowing the safe use of marijuana by consenting adults. On the other hand, if the lobbyists and Corporation puppetmasters are afraid that marijuana use will diminish labor productivity, then the Fed will be forced to smash down any efforts by the states to legalize it.

Back to salvia. There is so much unexplored territory left within salvia space. No where WAS the discussion of clones and parallel worlds as pronounced as was in salvia discussion websites. I'm using past tense because the discussion has dried up. In order to discuss themes as crazy as clones and parallel worlds, you need to load up on extract. That was Frenchy's big statement and I agree with him. But if the salvia beings actually exist, then they should share the responsibility in keeping salvia space fresh and novel. Salvia beings seem to be very secure in their cloaked-out worlds. Evidence is strong that they don't want earth humans interfering with their technology.

I realize that salvia beings might be figments of our hallucinogenic imaginations, but some of us agree that the belief in the objective reality of salvia beings is more exciting to contemplate about (unless you're into neuroscience).

Kedabra introduced the idea of simulations into the salvia discussion. The idea of simulations is exciting because it's so fresh and novel. The more human beings blend together what was once exclusively biological and what was once merely virtual, the more humans find themselves as a kind of hybrid entity -- no longer purely biological. I doubt we have ever been purely biological. From the outset, humans and the other species have behaved more like complex machines than anything else. As much as I despise religion, one great achievement of religion is that it allowed the human race to perceive itself as being made in the image of God -- as SACRED entities. With the death of God, humans have lost their sense of sacredness, and the specter of humans as machines is growing along with deeper research in artificial intelligence, etc. So it seems more and more possible that humans are in fact de-sacred-ed down simulacrums.

The old edot included fascinating topics like the idea of living inside a simulation. There aren't that many interesting topics these days. I guess nothing lasts forever. The Beatles flashed across the heavens like Lucy in the Sky, but like a comet, even the fab Four fizzled out eventually.

I have an idea. I'll smoke some extract, have a massive heart attack, die, enter salvia space, and lead a messianic rescue mission for earth humans..........(cough) gotta watch those paranoid delusions.

or maybe I'll stand in line at the state sponsered marijuana outlet store, buy a few buds and watch old episodes of 'Lost in Space'. :)
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:20 pm

Thank you for your wonderful insights. I don't know what is happening with Salvia as far as that reality is concerned because I did not stay with that adventure long enough to fully explore it, but I remember well when there, in that space, how absurd normal human ego seemed to me when over there, laughing hard at how serious we take ourselves here.

Regarding our world not being "real", I tend to think as you, that our reality is merely a simulation. The older I get and the more I read, the more I see evidence for this as well as feel it. I've been studying some of Thomas Campbell's work, watching his YouTube video's and reading his My Big TOE (Theory of Everything) book which says the same thing. Everything he says comes from science and appears to be the absolute truth, our reality is generated, made by some kind of digital rendering machine of some kind. While I say this, this does not at all reduce the obligation to live a kind and moral life here, because I also see that a real consciousness is behind all of it, that each of us are real, but not in body; in soul but that even that has its own level of reality which is a simulation to the level above it, much like in the movie The Thirteenth Floor, which I just watched again tonight, our consciousness is from another reality above this one and along for the ride. The ride seems to be much more enjoyable and meaningful for us if we forget who we really are and that this is just a ride, so we have amnesia of our true origins and who we are, where we really come from to learn the lessons of this simulation. From what I can tell, anything we do here is forgiven, simply because none of it is real, we cannot really hurt anyone, have never done so, because this is just a game, a simulation. However, this is no excuse to be unkind or unloving because the consciousness behind all of the figures, all of the animals and people in this reality are connected to, come from and are perceived by the bigger part of ourselves, which is real, call it spirit or by any other name.

I seem to have a faint memory from before I was born that someone threw me into this machine, caused me to be born ignorant and have to learn the ways of this world. I don't think I wanted to come but I guess in the end, the adventure will have served to cause me to become more than I was before, when this reality closes on this life. Maybe we cycle through several lives, if we choose to take this route to learn, I must say and agree that this world has some very wonderful things in it which I dearly love, but it also seems to be a harsh way to go to learn but perhaps the fastest way to progress. Having been tricked or thrown into this washing machine for the intellect and the remaining subtle memory of that, it seems that slight memory has caused me to refuse many of the social rule sets here, fighting against it but it is futile, because the more you fight this system the more effective it is at teaching you some lessons! Easier to just go with the flow and enjoy the ride for however long it lasts.

Want evidence of the reality of all this? "As above, so below", now we are creating our own digital worlds, our own virtual realities and interjecting our consciousness into them, the same as when playing first person shooters online... In time, I imagine we will build AI machines where the players inside the game have their own consciousness where we steer their adventure, but what happens to them affects us at the level above, as we are successful or not in those virtual endeavors, but only a game, a ride for our consciousness to enjoy and learn from. Perhaps a ride just for the enjoyment alone and if we don't learn and get killed in the game from having made some stupid moves, to re-spawn for another run at it.

Makes me wonder, if we are successful at the game of life here whether when graduating up from playing the individual we can then have multiple characters to play, to use at one time, then more numbers, and more, then a city, a country, a planet? Multiple planets, solar system, galaxy? It would make us akin to Gods, if this is how the game is really played. Maybe each of us started out on our journey as a single cell, then multiples, & then a body of some kind.... That our progression is much like the cells of our body which join with others of our own likeness (souls on the same level?) to make a new greater body and that individual, composed of many (as our own bodies are) is the one which eventually joins together with others into an infinity of greater and great selves, as each of the many join together to make a new greater whole.

This kind of progression could cascade into a larger and larger being with greater and greater consciousness which is equally shared with all that compose it as a conscious collective, if you will. Perhaps we have a choice as pieces of the whole, to either remain in our own individual realities or join with others to understand more, as we climb the ladder to heaven, but only able to go a rung higher if we merge to become more. To me, this seems to be what is happening, the as above, as below thing... it is surely evident in our lives, in our individual bodies, without all the cells in our bodies (for the most part) living in harmony to support the whole, we could not have the greater body they compose. Perhaps at some level, our consciousness as human beings is shared with all the cells in our bodies and the atoms they contain? Maybe there is only really one being, the all that is, call it God or what ever and that in reality, there is no unbroken string from the smallest to the largest whole we are a part of, that the whole gets to know everything about all "below", but the parts below limited to their own little realities but feel the whole which gives them a kind of attractor, something which both attracts us to become more and also allows us a way to climb above a relative smallness to the greater reality. From all of this, it appears to me that the universe is a machine for making god's. But how far does it go? How far does the digital rendering machine go and is the universe itself a top level game for some other individual at a whole level above it?

Maybe I have gone too far with these ideas, or have I?

I started to think this way years ago, but only now am I coming to a more complete idea about it. Here's an interesting story I read which added fuel to these ideas:

http://people.tribe.net/cosmicegg/blog/ ... 64429d42f5

Seems like a whole lot of trouble to advance, if this is the way it works, I hope it is worth the trouble, if not, maybe better just to blink out after death and not have to deal with anything. I've said this for a long time, if there is life after death great, if not great, I won't have to get up sleepy in the morning anymore! I wondered far from the original topic, my apologies.

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salvialover24
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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by salvialover24 » Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:04 am

Burning, I feel sorry if your friend has unfortunate side effects with salvia.
Sphere you can read the simulation and UDA thread to see an argument that the physical and mental reality cannot be digital once we assume that our thought process are emulable digitally. Pierz has made a good summary here:

http://clubofsc.blogspot.be/2011/08/my- ... ument.html

A short but complete version can be found here:

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/public ... tract.html

Campbell navigates around the correct comp idea, but like most in the field, is still using an identity thesis which does not work with the computationalist hypothesis. If we are machine, then if we look below our substitution level (the level of description of the body or brain such that we survive a digital substitution made at that level), then we have to find a trace of all computations (which exist in arithmetic) going through our current state. This explains many quantum weirdness as a consequence of being digital and living in arithmetic. It contradicts the aristotelian view of the world (with a primitive physical reality), and confirms Plato view, where the physical observable reality is the border or surface of a non material realm/volume. It makes physics a branch of machine or number psychology or theology (in some neoplatonist sense). So computationalism does entail different possible of after-life, and even the absecne of any possible death from the first person perspective. I am neutral if this is great or not. Salvia can add evidence that there might be some smooth transitions possible, but this makes the prospect of violent death more frightening, I think. Anyway science is not wishful thinking. I don't think we can know the truth, but we can reason in theories (hypothesis). If my body is a machine, then it is a logical conclusion that consciousness and matter relies directly on infinities of (parallel) computations. Matter emerges somehow from a sort of competition between infinities of universal numbers/machine. Comp makes the Pythagorean (neo) platonists correct.

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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by Sphere » Thu Nov 08, 2012 7:51 pm

Thanks for giving me more to think about, interesting information. I think it may take me years to sort this out, perhaps less if I have help from others more adept at such, I'm just a beginner in this area of thought (digital vs analog) with an imagination which tries to be as large as the universe, as you can see from the above.

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Re: Salvia popularity in steep decline?

Post by salvialover24 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 10:11 am

That area of thought is truly gigantic. I have consecrated my life on it, but it is truly infinite so we are all beginners somehow, and then salvia has slightly changed some of my remaining prejudices, just adding some more doubts as we can never been sure. My opinion is that we have to backtrack on Plato and Plotinus. The aristotelian idea, the idea that there is a material Universe is a sort of instinctive and animal faith. I tend to think, even before salvia that the Universe is not primitively real: it emerges from arithmetic. We will come back to the simulation and UDA thread soon or later, as I am a bit busy for now. Opinions on salvianauts on this always interest me (and swim). I have to say that few people like the comp's consequences, especially the atheists. They react easily like many people react on salvia ("no thanks"). That area of thought is where wishful and traditional thinking still reign the most, for normal reason I guess. Most people adopt the religion of their parents (or the opposite one), and few are prepared to do genuine research, and prepared to change their mind. The problem is that we have separate theology from science, and this is was only an abandon of the fundamental to the political power. I think we are living a rather obscurantist era. If salvia can help in the long run ...

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