magick versus empathy

[Moonbreeze]

Magick versus empathy? why "versus"... it is my experience that the two are not necessarily conversely related however, "empathy" as defined as the ability to pick up on or identify with the thoughts of other beings is definitely something that needs to be controlled even in a "non-magickal sense" or your mind would be like a broken radio which can't stay tuned to any particular station, and thus wouldn't be of much use to anyone..

'magick' is the way Crowley chose to differentiate it from magic which he meant stage magic. His use of the K has to do with his emphasis on the magickal meaning of number 11 , of which K is the 11th letter of the alphabet!

As you may know Crowley preached the 'WILL' and would cut his arm with a razor blade if his thoughts deviated from where he wanted them to go. So in this regard you can seem training his will, right.

So I am saying all of that mindset is versus empathy, because how can you be open to how others feel unless your open to how you yourself feel? And the fact he wasn't is his lifestory which is full of abuse, and selfishness, and this is what his Book of the Law preaches.

being empathic does not mean you become taken over by others feelings. it means that you are in tune with others because your will ceases. You dont resist, but this doesn't mean your in that deep state all the time.
Some of the most powerful healing psychedelic experiences can come about after you become another, an animal, a plant, the Earth, the universe. This cannot happen if you resist the experience.

[teeko]

I like the number 11...and K is such a wonderful letter...

Not sure if I can go along with the 'will ceases' statement. You must have strong will to be a functional empathic. If not, then whatever emotions those people around you are feeling can/will overcome you.

What about people who "tie a string on their finger" as a reminder? Or what about someone who gets a tattoo as a reminder? When they start to notice their thoughts wondering towards the negative, they look at the string, look at the tattoo or possibly even tighten the string, pinch the tattoo, etc. - just so they can remind themselves that no, they don't need another cigarette...or no, they don't need to buy that bottle of whiskey. Other than a bit of blood, theres not much difference. Wait, tattoos make you bleed and if you tighten that string too tightly then you could lose your finger...

For empathy to be positive/successful you need strong will. Otherwise you will become a place-mat for other peoples problems. If you are overwhelmed with the burden of others emotions how can you deal with your own? If you cant deal with your own, how can you help anyone else?

[oahspe]

Not sure if I can go along with the 'will ceases' statement. You must have strong will to be a functional empathic. If not, then whatever emotions those people around you are feeling can/will overcome you.

For empathy to be positive/successful you need strong will. Otherwise you will become a place-mat for other peoples problems. If you are overwhelmed with the burden of others emotions how can you deal with your own? If you cant deal with your own, how can you help anyone else?

Bingo.

[oahspe]

'magick' is the way Crowley chose to differentiate it from magic which he meant stage magic. His use of the K has to do with his emphasis on the magickal meaning of number 11 , of which K is the 11th letter of the alphabet!

As you may know Crowley preached the 'WILL' and would cut his arm with a razor blade if his thoughts deviated from where he wanted them to go. So in this regard you can seem training his will, right.

So I am saying all of that mindset is versus empathy, because how can you be open to how others feel unless your open to how you yourself feel? And the fact he wasn't is his lifestory which is full of abuse, and selfishness, and this is what his Book of the Law preaches.

being empathic does not mean you become taken over by others feelings. it means that you are in tune with others because your will ceases. You dont resist, but this doesn't mean your in that deep state all the time.
Some of the most powerful healing psychedelic experiences can come about after you become another, an animal, a plant, the Earth, the universe. This cannot happen if you resist the experience.

So your argument is basically claiming that all 'magickal' mindset is anti-empathic because Crowley's life was selfish? Just because he invented the spelling does not mean that all paradigms which borrow said spelling of a silly little word (to differentiate from mere stage magic) are a direct outgrowth of this one mans psyche. Also just because one might have a heightened capacity to pick up on the thoughts and emotions of other sentient beings does not necessarily obligate one to act in a way that would be in accord with the wishes/desires of those beings. So no, by all definitions magick and empathy are not, nor have they ever been, mutually antagonistic realms of human consciousness, and to define it as so by the life and words of a single human being is folly imho.

Also the cutting with a razor blade is just one of the many hundreds of methods Crowley wrote about at one time or another and experimented with in attempts to alter his own consciousness and teach others how to do the same. You say "he cut himself when his thoughts deviated" implying this was a regular practice of his, so where is your evidence & proof?

being empathic does not mean you become taken over by others feelings. it means that you are in tune with others because your will ceases. You dont resist, but this doesn't mean your in that deep state all the time.
Some of the most powerful healing psychedelic experiences can come about after you become another, an animal, a plant, the Earth, the universe. This cannot happen if you resist the experience.

Well, from a Gnostic perspective, those experiences would only serve to further pulverize and recycle one's consciousness (thus keeping the spiritual spark trapped for many lifetimes to come) rather than serving any legitimate ends towards spiritual liberation (ultimate separation, not ultimate dissolution) for the Gnostic Seeker. But if that's what floats your boat, then have at it I say!

[flickedbic]

"I am concerned that 9/11 seems to be deeply connected with Crowley..."

Those responsible seem to have a similar path; but I wouldn't look too deeply into his work for "clues". I read the numerology of the planes; what if they might have been picked just to direct folks like you to get lost in Crowleys' work.

And/or so you will talk about it and people will say "oh; crazy conspiracy numerology." and go back to being "entertained" by "Hollywood".

Entertain - To hold the attention of with something amusing or diverting.
Middle English entertinen, to maintain...

Hollywood - Media, including movies, is used to change or guide culture.
"In ancient times Druid priests would use the wood of the holly tree to fashion staffs which they used to perform magic or cast spells. If we were to call this wood by its name we might call it holly wood. Could it be that Hollywood was named after the magical tree because the modern priests use it to cast spells on the people, controlling their minds?

Mind control, control of the mind. The Latin word ment is the origin of the English word mind, hence mental, mentality, etc. The Latin gubernare means to control, or steer, and is the origin of the English word govern. We combine the two words, gubernare and ment, which have a combined meaning of control or steering of the mind. These two roots are the origin of the modern English word we all know so well, government."-
Esoteric Language.
by Peter Griffin
I have found etymology to be much more useful than numerology; so far.
Another quote from Peter

Etymology is the study of the history of words, where they are from, and how their form and meaning have changed over time. The words we use everyday, the words we hear or read in the media, often have multiple meanings and it’s up to us, based on context, to decide which meaning is appropriate. But there are other meanings to words, hidden, or occult, meanings. Meanings that give away the truth inadvertently. These meanings are not necessarily official definitions, you will not find them in a dictionary. But, if you break the words down into their fragments and study the roots you will find a whole world of meaning you may have never known existed.

So who gives over the control of their mind? Those who "submit" "application" for "registration" as a "resident" of USA/AUS/UK/XYZ CORPORATION.

Resident - Res meaning "thing"; Ident meaning "identified".
We now have "Free-speech zones". If you want to speak freely GET IN THE BOX. If one disobeys/fails to worship the statu(t)e, the officers enforce the policy.

Perhaps in the form of a well-charged tazer;
they will place one in a "cell" to then be "charged" in court... where accepting an "attourney" makes one "a ward of the court".
Ward of the Court - A child; or someone of unsound mind.

"‘Registrations’, ‘applications’, and ‘submissions’ all keep us tied down to the political machine that controls our lives in the form of licenses, income tax, property tax, and statutory code. The dilemma now becomes this. What are the secrets that the authorities donot want us to know or comprehend that allows us to enter into this trapped state? I will tackle ten of these secrets in ten parts. The initial article will deal with how the government makes use of the Uniform Commercial Code to make you a ward of the state.

All commerce is regulated. The Uniform Commercial Code, the UCC, codifies the guidelines of commercial dealings involving all individuals, states, and countries. Therefore, in theory, if we are not engaging in commerce the UCC must not apply. This is really the crux of the matter. No matter what you do, if your mothers and fathers registered you for a birth certificate, a Certificate of Live Birth was created by the state in which you were born. The birth certificate that your mothers and fathers ‘applied’ for did not say birth certificate on it. That’s what you get back in the mail a few months later. That application states ‘Certificate of Live Birth’. ‘Applying’ for this Certificate of Live Birth constitutes a commercial contract and henceforth, the baby stands as a ward of the state from that point onward. All of us are deceived into selling our children into servitude directly out of the womb because we are informed that we ‘must’. Your birth certificate is only a receipt in evidence that you entered into a commercial contract with the state. The Certificate of Live Birth winds its way through the bureaucratic process and makes its way to Washington, DC. Yes, that’s right. Washington, DC. Within seventeen days of your birth and your parents’s ‘application’ for a Certificate of Live Birth, you are registered with the Federal Government.

Your Certificate retains the status of a bonded instrument. It has monetary value. A bond number is assigned and imprinted on the back. The government can also use this bonded instrument to generate more income utilizing your legal ‘person’ as the instrument of transaction. Why does Washington, DC want a file of each and every dwelling particular person? To tax you of course. That is why your bonded COLB has value. They are leveraging their future potential to tax you.

One should step back from this for a moment and look at a few things. First, notice some definitions. Look back over the article and locate the words in quotes. The legal definitions of the phrases are very important.

United States: The corporation usurping the sovereignty of the united States of America. All caps is UCC authorized standard.

Registration: Recording in official record.

Application: To request of beg for something.

Submission: A yielding to authority.

Person: A legal construct representing a commercial contractee.

Must: Designating a required action before another action can take place.

So, with these definitions in mind, think about the complete COLB process. The United States says that you must submit an application for a Certificate of Live Birth to register your baby as a legal person. Dissecting this assertion, we get this. A corporate entity is telling us that we must do something. We have to submit an application. We must beg the United States to let us yield our natural authority over our child (and ourselves when we are grown) over to them and register our act of yielding our natural authority in an official corporate document. Why ‘must’ we? Simply because if we don’t we will not be registered. You must submit an application in order tocreate a Certificate of Live Birth to create a ‘person’. What if you don’t desire your child associated with a ‘person’? Then don’t yield your natural authority over yourself or your baby over to the United States. Don’t fill out the application. ‘Must’ only signifies that if you agree to the process and wish to participate, then the action required to get the ball rolling is for you to ‘submit’ an’application’.

Sinceg we enter into a business contract with the state at birth, we are bound by the UCC. We gave up our right to be over the government by submitting to them in writing. We are all wards of the state and that is why they can force you to pay taxes, obey stupid laws, and throw you in jail for not cooperating with them. You submitted to their authority at birth. The UCC in turn governs all of our behavior, so we have to act as if we are always engaging in commerce.

Under the Constitution, there is no such thing as a United States citizen. We are all State Nationals; citizens of our state of birth."

-How the Government Owns You
By juniorsal

I just thought I would share some info I've gathered on some of the magic(k?) we see (or don't) in everyday life... and a kind that it isn't just the the "remote controll" "programming" of the T.V. Although media is a big part of it; as is compulsive "education" on pain of the removal of children...

Blessings.

[Moonbreeze]

Down here in my pants!

So what kind of sex is good clean vanilla sex? No scat play. No bdsm. No watersports. No 3-somes. No facials. No fellatio or cunnilingus. No sodomy.

Fuck, whats left? Missionary style? Is doggy style allowed? Its got the word doggy in it which might make it sodomy...

And don't you like dudes so wouldnt that be 'bad' and 'devilish'? Many people in this world would say they would rather eat their wives shit then have another dudes penis in there mouth. I will pass on both of those but just making a comparison.

I say, if you and your partner wanna see what getting shit on feels like then have at it. No harm, no foul. Now if you started shitting on your kids then you most likely have a problem.

edit:
re: Crowley and shit eating...what if he had some kind of deficiency that was causing him to crave feces? Maybe he could not digest grains and his body was telling him to eat other peoples shit so he could get the nutrients? Animals do this ALL the time - and if we ARE part of this planet Earth, then we ARE animals and we should have no problem with eating shit...am I right?

Yeah...he was defincient in love, I reckon. Most fetishes are this deep need for intimacy felt to be lacking.
What Crowleyanity has done/is doing is making depravity cool. 'you wallow in gang bagnin and shit and drink piss from trainers, you say?? hell GO FOR IT!! YEAH!
Trouble with this is that these desires can fukin take one over. I read this book--tried to after about half way I threw it in the bin. it was called 101 Days of Sodom by the Marquis de Sade, and it has the narrative of these elite men who lock themselves and these youths and children in a big house. As story progresses various prostitutes descend this grand staircase--and they become gradually more and more repulsive-looking--and tell pornographic stories, that include shit-eating, but as the guests become more and more satiated and bored, the stories have to get wrosre and worse till they are talking about making children eat shit and mutilating them and murdering them. One of Englands worse child serial killers, Ian Brady loved this author's work!

Ted Bundy the serial killer, before he was executed, confessed his big downfall was the violent porn he watched, I tried to find you the video I saw where Bundy just told about it--as you can see here. But thought this more interesting because you see the video-maker here seems to suggest that what Bundy says is just an excuse for the evil he did. Does this guy look like he's into Crowley to you....? anyway, have a listen:

Ted Bundy: Porn Victim!!!

See, what this porn advocate will suggest clearly is--yeah its fine to have very violent porn towards women--'do what thou wilt'...kids eatin turd..? ohhh fine 'do what thou wilt shall be the law', and the porno makers will love that sayin and all

Most people in our culture FREAK if there is any resistance to porn, and just self-destructing on drugs, and crazed living, because it is seen VERY Christian and uncool. But why does concern for this only have to be Christian. What about Goddess spiritualty who are very open about sexuality but not violence towards women, or shit-eating.

When you think of Native American culture do you envision that they shat and pissed on each other?

[Moonbreeze]

I like the number 11...and K is such a wonderful letter...

Not sure if I can go along with the 'will ceases' statement. You must have strong will to be a functional empathic. If not, then whatever emotions those people around you are feeling can/will overcome you.

What about people who "tie a string on their finger" as a reminder? Or what about someone who gets a tattoo as a reminder? When they start to notice their thoughts wondering towards the negative, they look at the string, look at the tattoo or possibly even tighten the string, pinch the tattoo, etc. - just so they can remind themselves that no, they don't need another cigarette...or no, they don't need to buy that bottle of whiskey. Other than a bit of blood, theres not much difference. Wait, tattoos make you bleed and if you tighten that string too tightly then you could lose your finger...

For empathy to be positive/successful you need strong will. Otherwise you will become a place-mat for other peoples problems. If you are overwhelmed with the burden of others emotions how can you deal with your own? If you cant deal with your own, how can you help anyone else?

Look, teeko, say I am watching a terrible scene of people who are weeping and moaning because their whole family has been wiped out in a bomb attack, etc. To really feel their grief does NOt entail me bracing my will so I dont get 'taken over'by my emapthy observing their grief....? No, I FEEL it. Being overcome is the whole point. THEY dont resist that shock using their will---well some may. But the whole point of expression emotions, feeling, is letting go of resistance and feeling it.

[Moonbreeze]

So your argument is basically claiming that all 'magickal' mindset is anti-empathic because Crowley's life was selfish? Just because he invented the spelling does not mean that all paradigms which borrow said spelling of a silly little word (to differentiate from mere stage magic) are a direct outgrowth of this one mans psyche. Also just because one might have a heightened capacity to pick up on the thoughts and emotions of other sentient beings does not necessarily obligate one to act in a way that would be in accord with the wishes/desires of those beings. So no, by all definitions magick and empathy are not, nor have they ever been, mutually antagonistic realms of human consciousness, and to define it as so by the life and words of a single human being is folly imho.

Crowley has had tremendous influence on western occultism! Magick as I am defining it IS the training of will which I am saying impedes a sense of letting go emotionally. yes there may be a letting go in ritual, to get some result, but not on an emotional level about what one is actually feeling. It is usually designed FOR ritual. When you are empathic it is not ritual, and it is your will ceasing to resist whatever emotions you may feel.

Also the cutting with a razor blade is just one of the many hundreds of methods Crowley wrote about at one time or another and experimented with in attempts to alter his own consciousness and teach others how to do the same. You say "he cut himself when his thoughts deviated" implying this was a regular practice of his, so where is your evidence & proof?

Didn't I quote it above? "When one's speech, action or thought strayed from the correct course, one must cut thyself sharply upon the wrist or forearm with a razor; even as thou shouldst beat a disobedient dog."

In the book, there is a picture of Crowley's disciple, Victor Neuburg's arm, and it is totally scarred obviously from following his mentor's advice!

Well, from a Gnostic perspective, those experiences would only serve to further pulverize and recycle one's consciousness (thus keeping the spiritual spark trapped for many lifetimes to come) rather than serving any legitimate ends towards spiritual liberation (ultimate separation, not ultimate dissolution) for the Gnostic Seeker. But if that's what floats your boat, then have at it I say!

Well I dont believe we are trapped. That, as you say, is the patriarchal understanding, including the Gnostic perspective shared by many of the popular religions including Eastern--that nature and our bodies is a trap and we need to escape. I rather feel and am more attracted to Goddess spirituality which understands nature as sacred, and reality naturally recycles which is also sacred.

[Moonbreeze]

"I am concerned that 9/11 seems to be deeply connected with Crowley..."

Those responsible seem to have a similar path; but I wouldn't look too deeply into his work for "clues". I read the numerology of the planes; what if they might have been picked just to direct folks like you to get lost in Crowleys' work.

And/or so you will talk about it and people will say "oh; crazy conspiracy numerology." and go back to being "entertained" by "Hollywood".

Entertain - To hold the attention of with something amusing or diverting.
Middle English entertinen, to maintain...

Yes I have heard that idea before, but don't go for it. These people take the control-freak magick very seriously because they seek power. The overall rabbit hole of the 9/11 atrocity makes me wonder rather than what your idea says, but that in the corcerythere is the magick for befuddlement. Ie., to create diverse conficting theories. Ie., some popel not trusting what their eyes see--stuff like that, nor what their ears here, etc.

Hollywood - Media, including movies, is used to change or guide culture.
"In ancient times Druid priests would use the wood of the holly tree to fashion staffs which they used to perform magic or cast spells. If we were to call this wood by its name we might call it holly wood. Could it be that Hollywood was named after the magical tree because the modern priests use it to cast spells on the people, controlling their minds?

Well yes they do this. They have put lots of references about 9/11 in films before the event. I have read they do this because they want our consent before they do this evil shit. So it is like they are saying 'you may only notice the signs subconsciously, but by doing so and doing nothing---protesting against it-- you give consent.

Mind control, control of the mind. The Latin word ment is the origin of the English word mind, hence mental, mentality, etc. The Latin gubernare means to control, or steer, and is the origin of the English word govern. We combine the two words, gubernare and ment, which have a combined meaning of control or steering of the mind. These two roots are the origin of the modern English word we all know so well, government."-
Esoteric Language.
by Peter Griffin
I have found etymology to be much more useful than numerology; so far.
Another quote from Peter

Hmmm if true, I didn't know that. Interesting. But one thing i know is that these control freak shits are all about mindcontrol, and thats why I want to undermine what they do. becoming aware of their tricks undermines it.

So who gives over the control of their mind? Those who "submit" "application" for "registration" as a "resident" of USA/AUS/UK/XYZ CORPORATION.

Resident - Res meaning "thing"; Ident meaning "identified".
We now have "Free-speech zones". If you want to speak freely GET IN THE BOX. If one disobeys/fails to worship the statu(t)e, the officers enforce the policy.

yeah, it's the 'consent' thing again. IF we choose to be under their propaganda and sorcery, then we..are aren't we. it is up to us to get diggin whats going on. Like yesterday, because they are destroying our Earth Mother.

Perhaps in the form of a well-charged tazer;
they will place one in a "cell" to then be "charged" in court... where accepting an "attourney" makes one "a ward of the court".
Ward of the Court - A child; or someone of unsound mind.

They do use language to confound for sure--one term for it is gobledygook, and legalize, etc. But they do this in their myths and secret soceities. Their middle name is devious.

-How the Government Owns You
By juniorsal

I just thought I would share some info I've gathered on some of the magic(k?) we see (or don't) in everyday life... and a kind that it isn't just the the "remote controll" "programming" of the T.V. Although media is a big part of it; as is compulsive "education" on pain of the removal of children...

Blessings.

Yes. it is all a continuum, from the 'education' we are forced to attend from being very little, to mass media, the mental health movement, politics, and their sorcery. it is their matrix they oppress all life with, because it is not just humans but all species under threat of this destructive death cult!

[teeko]

Look, teeko, say I am watching a terrible scene of people who are weeping and moaning because their whole family has been wiped out in a bomb attack, etc. To really feel their grief does NOt entail me bracing my will so I dont get 'taken over'by my emapthy observing their grief....? No, I FEEL it. Being overcome is the whole point. THEY dont resist that shock using their will---well some may. But the whole point of expression emotions, feeling, is letting go of resistance and feeling it.

Why do you need to feel their grief? Why do you need to be overcome with grief? How is being overcome with grief beneficial?

If you just witnessed such a terrible scene you are already feeling your own emotions. Its not like you would see such a thing, feel nothing, then when you noticed someone sad you would suddenly become sad. Doesn't really work like that.

"Bracing your will" - well that could mean multiple things. You can still FEEL the emotions without being overcome. Again I say, how can you be of any assistance to anyone including yourself if you are overcome with grief? YOU CANNOT. So if you 'brace your will' and STOP the oncoming wave of overwhelming grief - you may very well be able to stop someone from blowing their brains out on the spot. If you were so grief stricken you would just be sitting there moaning and crying also. That would not be very beneficial would it?

Crowleys diary quote:

Saturday 9
9.0 P.M. Began vow of Refusing to answer questions. D.D.S. says 7 days. A slip is to be punished with a razor-cut.
Rose is very angry, of course.
One notices in Refusing to Answer Questions that nearly everything said to one is a question.
One notices that 5 years ago one would have called all the Gods to witness a majestic ceremonial Vow; at present one determines, & begins forthwith.
One may use this formula to battle against and overcome the Great Devil

One should consider before speaking at all whether the speech is both necessary and unimportant; for unless these conditions are fulfilled one breaks the Vow of Silence, of which this is a branch.
One has been in fighting form all day, but this formula gives one an idea of tremendous controlled force.

day.
All things are wonderful to me. I know that I am on the very threshold of Binah; that henceforth I shall go about my ways in utter delight and praise. Hail!
This matter of R[efusing] to A[nswer] Q[uestions] resolves itself into a vigilance over speech. It is thus a much harder task than plain Silence; for interest in the conversation betrayeth this vigilance.
It has struck me that ``the Black Magician abstains from salt'' is Tohu-Bohu. The abstainer from salt did so to work evil without becoming nimak-kharam. Hence he was suspected of sorcery.

nimak = allegiance
kharam = sacred
Tohu-Bohu = emptiness, without form, confusion



Who is this Great Devil that Aleister speaks of? Pretty sure it refers to the Serpent that undid the World and brought upon the Fall of Man from Paradise. So was Crowley fighting 4th dimensional reptoids?

Sounds like he wanted to manipulate the negative side of things for his own good without having to be overcome with the actual negativity.
Check out "The Satanic Screen: An Illustrated Guide to the Devil in Cinema".