The Unspeakably Weird Place

Here is the place to discuss philosophy, religion, and spirituality.
Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Moonbreeze » Sat Jun 18, 2011 3:25 pm

Beelzebozo wrote:SWIM smoked edit for the first time in four months and confronted it. He confronted it and his fear and its source became fully known to him. Any hope he may have had that he has progressed since the big mushroom trip three years ago is gone. The terror is still there, as strong as ever. Terror is too weak a word. SWIM tried to get around it, tried to move past it, but it is all-consuming.

I'll try and put it into words.

The fear stems from the realization of the truth of our existence. We are alone, forever and always. When this realization hits, nothing seems worthwhile or fulfilling anymore. A void opens up. It is obvious we are going to have to confront ourselves and our utter alone-ness eventually, there is no escaping it. Our only consolation may be the unknowing of total oblivion, if it is even possible for us to reach that state. And that too is a terrifying prospect.

It is difficult to put into words. Call it, maybe, "an awareness of the singularity of the self."

A memory returned to me last night, a memory of when I was 7 or 8. Back then, I became aware of all of this, the predicament of consciousness. Isn't that ridiculous? A seven year-old grappling with the *same* things that I'm grappling with again as an adult? It was triggered by my parents telling me about the idea of black holes, which I thought long and hard about. Before long, I awakened to our precarious perch as beings in the world of phenomena. I remember the soul-crushing, mind-numbing feeling that persisted each and every day. The feeling was accompanied by a nauseating feeling in the pit of the stomach, which I complained to my parents about for months. It was the same as it is now. Nothing has changed.

I remember also that it ceased at some point, but I can't remember how. Clearly it hasn't gone away, however, it's still there.

I can't see a way around it. To enter into that place on psychedelics looks, from my perspective, like madness. I don't know if I can pass through it and return a sane, functioning part of this society. The idea that I must inevitably face it someday, however, is equally horrible. I don't know what's worse, waiting to experience it at the moment of my death, or jumping in and confronting it now, risking that I might return broken and despairing.

Sorry folks! :lol: Heavy stuff.

Now, understand, I've moved past this fear (seemingly) once before, last summer. That's SWIM's "Amanitas & Edit" report that he's posted here before. I want to believe, very badly, that I can move past it again, that that wasn't an illusion; but the fear is so overwhelming that it blots out rationality.

Fortunately, for now it only appears when I meditate deeply on it, so I can go about my business today.
Fear of being engulfed in a black hole? into the single-u-larity...? This fearful thought formed when 7 years old. It becomes a pattern in the mind of the child, and rigidifies over the years, being associated with certain situations that have made you feel iso-lated, lone-ly, and all this brings pain?

the fear of the fear of the fear of it. Just dive into the black hole is alright for someone ELSE to give as advice, but to actually Do it is something else?

What is your fear would happen? what would "utter aloneless look like, feel like?

Flapjack
Posts: 3268
Joined: Fri Oct 14, 2011 5:41 pm
Contact:

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Flapjack » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:15 pm

I don't think that is the truth of our existence

I always think the world is about to end when I smoke edit

But sometimes I like to feel that way


I'm scared of a lot of things too.



Dissociation

Image
Last edited by Flapjack on Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sphinx
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Sphinx » Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:44 am

Could it be that the void is not a void, simply because you are aware of it. A true void has no experience, and you would not experience it, so a true void is impossible.

I have been there, its cold and empty, but.. I am there, aware. If It was, or could possibly be a true void, you would not exist, so what is it, it can't exist, without you.

But the striping down, to a singularity, is that all it has to offer.

Maybe its an wakening of sorts. However, I shudder there...I don't like it and my every fiber revolts.

Don't know about all you, but in retrospect, I feel a need to fight it.

I
Last edited by Sphinx on Mon Jun 20, 2011 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sphinx
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Sphinx » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:13 am

The I without am has no meaning
The am without I is incomplete
I am is fullness
Complete

Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Moonbreeze » Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:59 am

Yes, it's worthwhile to be aware of how reality flows. We are flowing now, all the time our moods are changing and are utterly interelated with the 'other' --that which we think of as 'out there'--other people, the weather, happenings and so on. It is like colour, all objects are affected by reflections and light and shade, and other colours. As an artist you have to become aware of this interrelation. So it is with our changing moods and feelings and emotions.

Now, when we go to sleep we vibrate and the rates of vibrations have been given names like beta, alpha, theta, and delta, and they cycle. Delta is the deepst vibration and is called dreamless sleep. This could also be called a void in that your are supposedly not aware, you are dreamless, and some say this is the most healing part of the cycle. So IF we are not aware in dreamless sleep, would you be aware in your 'blackhole'? Isn't the fear you imagining 'you' are aware when that doesn't make sense because your not? And also, like our actual reality going on now shows, nothing is static so is it likely a 'black hole' or 'void' would be static and never changing?

User avatar
Beelzebozo
Posts: 691
Joined: Sat May 12, 2012 12:12 pm

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Beelzebozo » Mon Jun 20, 2011 3:00 pm

moonbreeze wrote:Fear of being engulfed in a black hole? into the single-u-larity...? This fearful thought formed when 7 years old. It becomes a pattern in the mind of the child, and rigidifies over the years, being associated with certain situations that have made you feel iso-lated, lone-ly, and all this brings pain?

the fear of the fear of the fear of it. Just dive into the black hole is alright for someone ELSE to give as advice, but to actually Do it is something else?

What is your fear would happen? what would "utter aloneless look like, feel like?
There's a lot of wisdom in your questioning, thank you. :)

Ah to be me, what a silly person I am. :lol:

It's my mistake that I struggle with this thing, when I don't need to. Fear's a tricky thing! My initial instinct is to confront it and wrestle with it, but of course that's one of the stupidest things you can do really. There's no point in fighting a mirage. When you focus on something, you magnify it. Like you say, "fear of fear of fear, etc." It becomes like a feedback loop.

Yes, reality is flowing! Like a river! When we get out of here and now by thinking, worrying, fearing, we get caught up in our own little eddy. When we realize what we're doing and just flow, we're just here and that's that.

When I get myself to stop acting like a complete idiot, I realize how much I love everyone and everything, I really have the deepest compassion for myself. There is no path to enlightenment, I know what that means now. :D

Life's a fun game to play, unless you forget that it's a game!
Last edited by Beelzebozo on Mon Jun 20, 2011 5:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Thrummular, thrummular thrilp,
Hum lipsible, lipsible lilp;
Dim thricken mithrummy,
Lumgumptulous hummy,
Stormgurgle umbumdular bilp.
—Alan Watts, The Book

Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Moonbreeze » Mon Jun 20, 2011 7:09 pm

Ah to be me, what a silly person I am. :lol:
No, you are not silly, you are exploring and learning a deep important lesson

User avatar
Sphinx
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Sphinx » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:41 am

moonbreeze wrote:Yes, it's worthwhile to be aware of how reality flows. We are flowing now, all the time our moods are changing and are utterly interelated with the 'other' --that which we think of as 'out there'--other people, the weather, happenings and so on. It is like colour, all objects are affected by reflections and light and shade, and other colours. As an artist you have to become aware of this interrelation. So it is with our changing moods and feelings and emotions.

Now, when we go to sleep we vibrate and the rates of vibrations have been given names like beta, alpha, theta, and delta, and they cycle. Delta is the deepst vibration and is called dreamless sleep. This could also be called a void in that your are supposedly not aware, you are dreamless, and some say this is the most healing part of the cycle. So IF we are not aware in dreamless sleep, would you be aware in your 'blackhole'? Isn't the fear you imagining 'you' are aware when that doesn't make sense because your not? And also, like our actual reality going on now shows, nothing is static so is it likely a 'black hole' or 'void' would be static and never changing?
OK, I know what you are saying, on the level of mind and consciousness we can go deep under..consciousness at rest, and we become conscious again. When I swim I can go to two very different deep levels of consciousness, one is void of all sensibility, and seems so very bleak. Its traumatic for me because I feel no love there, no worth in me and I am aware of this lack.. of worth, for lack of better words. I have tried to rest there but it leaves me troubled.

I can also go to a void like place that is absent of grasping and I see clearly, my goodness, and the futility in grasping, but there is a divine radiance there that floods me. That has true worth! So much worth that nothing else.. other.. has worth. This void I gravitate too, the one makes me sad? the other illuminates. There are two distinct voids for me it seems. And I am conscious of both. One brings love, peace, and well being, the other a deep confusion, it seems.
Last edited by Sphinx on Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

PsiloSight
Posts: 61
Joined: Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:00 pm

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by PsiloSight » Tue Jun 21, 2011 12:59 am

I believe that the object of this thread's discussion is what is usually described as the Void. Now, as has been pointed out, this is sort of a misnomer, since there is a sense of self--however vague it may be--in tact to experience it. Swim has been there on mushrooms, and did experience telepathy before diving into the void. It was all very terrifying to him as well, being Swim's first entheogenic experience outside of edit. His experiences with Cacti were much more gentle. He never experienced something quite so intense again until one very scary experience with saluia.

User avatar
Sphinx
Posts: 1859
Joined: Wed Aug 02, 2006 7:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: The Unspeakably Weird Place -

Post by Sphinx » Tue Jun 21, 2011 1:00 am

Flapjack wrote:I don't think that is the truth of our existence

I always think the world is about to end when I smoke edit

But sometimes I like to feel that way


I'm scared of a lot of things too.



Dissociation

Image
The void of disassociation, right. Whats it good for other than the realization that mind can fragment to a very basic aloneness, but we are not alone, I feel.

Post Reply