* An Organized Entheogen Religion *

Here is the place to discuss philosophy, religion, and spirituality.
PointMan
Posts: 119
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by PointMan » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:03 pm

RunyanWilde wrote:PointMan asks: "Do you believe it would be possible to get Freedom of Information info on the sacraments used by mainstream religions?"

>> I'm not sure what you mean, PointMan. Why would any mainstream church have needed to bring attention to their weak wine and wafers?
Dear Runyan Wilde:
If you think that weak wine and wafers have held billions of people in main stream religion then you can’t see the forest because of the trees. Santo Daime and the Native American Church fall right into what the NWO wants. They want to concentrate population thereby controlling its growth through overpopulation of available land. Their spear points are the new age Green Religions.

Good Recon Moonbreeze:
What does however disturb me though, and I have to express this, is the Governments interest, including the United Nations. For when you look closely at this body, its intentions are not benevolent at all.
Last edited by PointMan on Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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mutant
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by mutant » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:31 pm

zubsza wrote:I don't think this is true Scy. What about "family" (nuclear or otherwise), "culture," "tribe?" Are these not all systems of organization?

I think the desire to organize may be a symptom of an egotistical need to control, but then it may also just be a symptom of being a pack animal...

Do birds flock together because of one dictator bird...I suppose I can't say for sure, but I would highly doubt it. More a biological function than a means for other more "powerful" birds to lord over other "weaker" ones.

What of the societal nature of other primates? Gorillas for example...they live in communities...is this the result of an egomaniacal silverback's quest for power and control of his fellow Gorillas.
quote from page 3 / bottom

Man that's the second time you speak my opinion. And, having a somewhat leftwing / autonomist / libertarian background I gradually debunked over the years, I have to say that the 'wolf pack' arguement which justifies a bit of 'authority' or 'power' was the ultimate arguement against extremist libertarian ideas - or any fetish that leftwing/anarchist have with absolute freedom and anti-authority. zubsza, have you read Max Stirner?

On topic, I am against organised religion - in fact, the idea is quite too ambitious to ever function in the so called community. Basic reason is that god is personal, and especially within the community, religion is largely different on each individual.

Still there are other interesting things members of the community have in common, so skip religion and search for them!

An atheist...

Garry Minor
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by Garry Minor » Fri Nov 02, 2007 1:49 pm

Hi everybody! There are in fact several Religions around the globe that use plants as sacrament. I am a "Christian" Cannabis Sacrament Minister.
In 1936 a Polish Anthropologist named Sula Benet discovered that in the original Hebrew text of the Old Testament the word "kaneh bosm" had been translated as calamus by the Greeks when they first rendered the Books in the 3rd century B.C., then propagated as such in all future translations without review because during the same time period Hebrew ceased to be used as a spoken language. It was not revived again until the late 1800's by a man named Eliezer Ben-Yehuda. Benet claimed through substantial research and etymological comparison the proper translation for "kaneh bosm" is cannabis. In 1980 the Hebrew Institute of Jerusalem confirmed her claim that "kaneh bosm" is indeed cannabis. Ben-Yehuda's 1964 Hebrew/English dictionary confirms this fact, page 140. In a ironic twist of fate the Biblical "canon" is derived from the Hebrew "Kaneh". It's true!!!
In Exodus 30:23 God instructs Moses to use 250 shekels of "kaneh bosm" in the oil to anoint all Kings, Priests, and Prophets, for all generations to come, including that of Jesus and even today. The title Christ/Messiah means literally covered in oil, "Anointed". Kaneh is also listed as an incense Tree in Song of Songs 4:14. The mistake was repeated in Isaiah 43:24, Jeremiah 6:20, and Ezekiel 27:19. There are 141 references to anointing and 145 for burning incense in the standard Bible.
In the New Testament there are many hints of something that is missing. In 1945 at Nag Hammadi Egypt ancient scriptures were discovered that had been hidden 1600 + years that reveal the importance of the "Anointing" to Christianity. It is our namesake. John the Baptist claimed that he baptized with water but Jesus would baptize with fire and the Holy Spirit. Within 1John 2:18-29 it say's; "But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the Truth." And again; "As for you the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit- just as it has taught you remain in him. The Gospel of Philip say's it best;
There is water in water, there is "fire in Chrism."
And again it say's;
"The "Chrism" is superior to the baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not from the word baptism. And it is from the "Chrism" that the "Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the son, the Son anointed the Apostles, and the Apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the resurrection, the light, the cross, the Holy Spirit. The Father gave him this in the Bridal chamber; he merely accepted the gift. The Father was in the Son and the Son in the Father. This is the Kingdom of Heaven."
Again it say's;
If one goes down into the water and comes up without having received anything, and say's "I am a Christian," he has borrowed the name at interest. But if he receives the Holy Spirit , he has the name as a gift. He who has received a gift does not have to give it back, but of him who has borrowed it at interest, payment is demanded. This is the way it happens to one when he experiences a mystery.
Through the Holy Spirit we are indeed begotten again, but we are begotten through Christ in the two. We are anointed through the spirit. When we were begotten, we were united. None can see himself either in water or a mirror without light. Nor again can you see self in light without mirror or water. For this reason it is fitting to baptize in the two, in the light and the water. Now the light is the Chrism.
The Acts of Thomas describes many times the cup of Oil poured upon the head! When you know the power of the "Chrism" it all comes to life as you read the Words.

The word antichrist means literally;
anti- opposed to or against.
Christ- Anointed, to pour oil upon as in a religious ceremony.

Anybody have eyes to see?
Psalm 133
www.thc-ministry.org

zubsza
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by zubsza » Fri Nov 02, 2007 3:16 pm

zubsza, have you read Max Stirner?
No, I have not. Honestly I have read very little philosophy. I am familier with many of the older greek philosophers because of the role they played in early music theory, and I am somewhat familier with the work of Lao Tzu, Sun Tzu, and Miyamoto Musashi.

Stirner sounds like an interesting individual, however, and I have a lot of interest in the areas he writes in. I may have to check some of his work out. Thanks for pointing this person out to me.

bransondude
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by bransondude » Fri Nov 02, 2007 4:50 pm

personally I grew up in a highly controlled christian environment. I have come to see "organized religion" as "controlled religion". it would be nice to have an atmosphere where I could use entheogens sacramentally without society shunning me (or, even better actually tolerating my beliefs). However, I personally could never again contribute to organized religion. I feel that each person must persue their beliefs on their own; that persuit of spirituality must be a lonely walk. many wonderful ideas that became organized turn into horrible deformations. founders of today's largest religions would probably be disgusted at how their ideas have developed over time. never in human history has an organized religion been immune to corruption. your good ideas, in my opionion, would eventually be distorted and abused. this is why my spiritual walk is a lonely one. I will share my experiences and seek advice but in the end it is the individual alone who must form his or her beliefs.

Teal_
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by Teal_ » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:02 pm

What of the societal nature of other primates? Gorillas for example...they live in communities...is this the result of an egomaniacal silverback's quest for power and control of his fellow Gorillas.
Don't know about gorillas but chimpanzees for sure. These aggressive, murderous monkeys who beat and rape their women often kill other other tribes over power disputes.

zubsza
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by zubsza » Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:59 pm

That is a very good point tealmeld...my statement wasn't to dispute the fact that violence occurs in nature or the systems of organization that occur therein...it most certainly does. You have provided a great example of just that.

That post of mine was made more with the intention to show that the desire to organize isn't a trait specific to humans. It is a trait that can plainly be seen in many widely varying types of species across the globe. Both in non-violent forms and, as you have pointed out, violent ones.

I think the desire to organize is simply a function of Nature. Therefore humans, being a PART OF NATURE (not above, below, or beside), would naturaly also desire to organize...

I may have gotten a bit ahead of myself with the primate comparison, however, as it may have been a bit misleading in the context I provided...so a bad example on my part...but still a vavlid observation IMO regardless.

Although, I think this leads us to an interesting new facit of this conversation...

Do you think these primates carry out these acts based on an "egotistical need to organize" or are they just simply mean little bastards carrying out violent acts because it is all they know (their nature?). Do they seek power or do they just seek to serve themselves by taking whatever resources they desire by any means they have at their disposal (and perhaps gain power/control/etc. defacto). I think one could make logical conclusions based on observation, but I don't think we can know this for sure.

EDIT:
Some interesting links concerning chimpanzee voilence in realtion to human violence...
http://johnhawks.net/weblog/reviews/...zees_2005.html
Scy will enjoy the title of this one I'm sure ;)
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv...monicmales.htm
Last edited by zubsza on Fri Nov 02, 2007 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RunyanWilde
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Location: St. Louis

Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by RunyanWilde » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:42 am

moonbreeze wrote:I have of course heard of Santo Daime before, and its remarkable beginnings. But reading this I was inspired to Google 'Santo Daime Permaculture' and found this overview of the Santo Daime Religion:
http://www.lila.info/document_view.phtml?document_id=82
MoonBreeze, as lovely as Rex tells it, the status of the entheogenic religions in Brazil is never assumed to be "all set" - the churches keep full-time lobbyists around the gov't because some new official always wants to show off to his or her constituents that "these people can't be off doing what is illegal for the rest of us" or some such. So one must always be vigilant when becoming visible out of the mainstream, right?

- Runyan

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RunyanWilde
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by RunyanWilde » Sat Nov 03, 2007 1:49 am

PointMan wrote:Dear Runyan Wilde:
If you think that weak wine and wafers have held billions of people in main stream religion then you can’t see the forest because of the trees. Santo Daime and the Native American Church fall right into what the NWO wants. They want to concentrate population thereby controlling its growth through overpopulation of available land. Their spear points are the new age Green Religions.
Sorry, PointMan - could you please explain what it is that you are getting at, and how it relates to anything else I've said?

- Runyan

deoxy23
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Re: * An Organized Entheogen Religion * -

Post by deoxy23 » Sat Nov 03, 2007 5:57 pm

i think you are right on and on the right track! i don't know why these others are so negative.. boo, dreary dreary

if indigenous people can fight for entheogenic rights so should "americans".. volumes upon volumes of research are everywhere.. it is a personal right to happiness and spirituality!

lets bring Thomas Jefferson back, he's support us!

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