Helleborus niger

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The Wrong Alice
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Helleborus niger

Post by The Wrong Alice » Wed Jul 11, 2012 2:30 am

I have walked the poison path for a while now and worked with a few of our toxic friends.

I've worked with Hellebore in a magical context, as an additive to incense, charms, and the like, but I've not used it internally.

I have been told that Hellebore has entheogenic potential, but I cannot find any useful data online regarding its effects, dosage suggestions, or application methods. All I can find is its use as a treatment for the heart and a curative for certain poisons and illnesses, and vague references to its power to cure madness, which is a very common ethnobotanical reference to entheogens.

Does anyone have any useful information, or personal experience on this subject? Thank you.

May you find what you seek,
Alice
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To my fellow poisoners, I offer my HERBAL. This is the only way to buy a book that gets longer after you have it.

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teeko
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by teeko » Fri Jul 27, 2012 12:59 pm

Interesting.

This mentions it being used as a vaginal suppository -- http://www.irjponline.com/admin/php/uploads/797_pdf.pdf
And says 'external use as pessary 2-3 grams'.
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The Wrong Alice
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by The Wrong Alice » Sun Jul 29, 2012 4:29 pm

Maybe not especially useful for my purposes, but still very interesting. Thank you.

I cannot find anyone who claims to have actually used it for its psychoactive effects. At least there should be someone who says "Yeah I tried it, it sucked, don't bother."

Looks like I'm gonna have to become that somebody. Next spring I hope to have Hellebore on the list of new purchases for the farm.

May you find what you seek,
Alice
Read my BLOG or THIS if you want to know who I am. If not, you aren't allowed to click my links.

To my fellow poisoners, I offer my HERBAL. This is the only way to buy a book that gets longer after you have it.

Dr Zzz
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by Dr Zzz » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:01 am

In my understanding at the "right" dose it lowers so much the blood presure that hallucinations may happen due to brain oxygen deprivation.
It should be the hell of a ride, probably closer to NDE than to a regular psychoactive experience.

There are a bunch of deadly things like that and some people using them to get high. In the mountains I know people who know how to dose amanita phalloides and purple foxglove. But as far as I remember they never talked about helleborus. So I don't have even second hand intel, that's just uneducated guess. Don't quote me on that.

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The Wrong Alice
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by The Wrong Alice » Fri Aug 03, 2012 11:02 am

Thank you very much, I'll do further research on the blood pressure effects, I know one of the primary uses of Hellebore is in its cardiac suppression. I hadn't thought of that property as having psychoactive potential, a very interesting idea.

Grieve identifies the chemical Helleborin as narcotic and used to treat nervous disorders and hysteria. She provides dosage for its use as an alterative. I'll have to try it and see whether or not that is sufficient for the psychoactive effect.

May you find what you seek,
Alice
Read my BLOG or THIS if you want to know who I am. If not, you aren't allowed to click my links.

To my fellow poisoners, I offer my HERBAL. This is the only way to buy a book that gets longer after you have it.

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minderbinder
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by minderbinder » Sat Aug 04, 2012 3:32 pm

Grieve identifies the chemical Helleborin as narcotic and used to treat nervous disorders and hysteria.
was after that for quite a while and then on and off again still, bu wasn't able to find info on it yet, too.
all i could add is that it was used in "schneeberger snuff" (still available, but only fructose and menthol). actually quite nice, but of no psychoacive value.
would be really interesting since all the known usable plants in this climate here are mostly pretty tough - like nightshades - or doubtful - like poison lettuce ... i bet there where more usable plants known in earlier times, but they seem to have been forgotten (or made forgotten?). i'm really thinking about learning latin to be able to read old herb books ... :)

am growing a Ledum palustre/groenlandica, for example, which is said to have been used in beer in old times, but no usable info on itself. just as example. maybe helleboris and other plants first have to be processed first, like aconitum?
Bhagwan told me not to worry. If i do it'll make me sorry. Alright.

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The Wrong Alice
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by The Wrong Alice » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:19 pm

I plan to learn Greek and start reading the source material that people like Grieve and Culpepper used.

When I have an opportunity to try Hellebore, I'll share the results here. Probably start with making an oil and use it transdermal.

May you find what you seek,
Alice
Read my BLOG or THIS if you want to know who I am. If not, you aren't allowed to click my links.

To my fellow poisoners, I offer my HERBAL. This is the only way to buy a book that gets longer after you have it.

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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by Dr Zzz » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:18 am

It depends if you're interrested in medical documents where used plant are listed and their effects exposed or if you look for broader references but you'll aslo need a bit of latin.
Among the "main" stuff : Disocrides was a greek, but its de materia medica was mainly used in his latin translation up to the 16th century. Pliny is very interesting and often gives the celtic (gaulish) names of the plants. And it's latin. It leaves us with Theophrastus, that's not so bad. And of couse with a lot of other sources in greek.

Greek is a very good language to learn. I keep forgetting and relearnig it because I don't read it often enough. It's not like learning say castillan and you'll read castillan books, web pages, or watch movies every day. For some time I was forcing myself to read bits of the oracles to stay in the greek bath. But now that I stopped it I feel like I never used any greek.

Dr Zzz
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by Dr Zzz » Mon Aug 06, 2012 5:29 am

It seems that this helleborin toxin is very similar in its effects to the foxgloves toxins. No wonder, the two plants are deadly and act on the heart and circulation. So if you can find data on foxglove maybe it will give you some vague idea of hellebore effects. Just a guess.

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minderbinder
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Re: Helleborus niger

Post by minderbinder » Mon Aug 06, 2012 2:22 pm

thanks Dr Zzz!

meanwhile i've been wasting some money on a self-learning-course in latin ... oh dear, all those grandiloquent moods of mine :roll:
Bhagwan told me not to worry. If i do it'll make me sorry. Alright.

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