Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor

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mitragyna
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Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by mitragyna » Tue Mar 03, 2009 2:34 am

I just read a study on Cat's Claw (Uncaria tomentosa) which proved it to be a rather powerful MAO-B Inhibitor. This was a bit suprising to me, as I never knew this. I am also on Nardil (Phenelzine), an irreversible MAO-A and MAO-B inhibitor.

My question is: Is Cat's Claw a powerful enough MAOI to have an interaction with my medication (Nardil)?

I know this is kind of a shot in the dark, but I'm hoping someone here may have some info on this matter...

Here is the study I read:
Inhibition of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) by Chinese herbal medicines.
Lin RD, Hou WC, Yen KY, Lee MH.

Department of Internal Medicine, Municipal Taipei Ho-Ping Hospital, Taiwan.

Monoamine oxidase (MAO) catalyzes the oxidative deamination of biogenic amines accompaned by the release of H2O2. Two subtypes, MAO-A and MAO-B, exist on the basis of their specificities to substrates and inhibitors. The regulation of MAO-B activity is important in the treatment of neurodegenerative diseases. Twenty-seven species of plants used in traditional Chinese medicines, selected from an enthnobotanical survey, were used in an investigation of their inhibitory effect on MAO-B in rat brain homogenates. The 50% aqueous methanol extracts of four active extracts, Arisaema amurense, Lilium brownii var. colchesteri, Lycium chinense, and Uncaria rhynchophylla, exhibited the best activity and selectivity towards MAO-B with IC50 values of 0.44, 0.29, 0.40, and 0.03 mg/ml, respectively. A kinetic study of MAO-B inhibition by the four extracts using the Lineweaver-Burk plot for each active extract revealed the IC50 concentrations, and results show that: Ki = 0.59 mg/ml for A. amurense for the mixed-type mode, Ki = 0.58 mg/ml for L. brownii var. colchesteri for the mixed-type mode, Ki = 5.01 mg/ml for L. chinense for the uncompetitive mode, and Ki = 0.02 mg/ml for U. rhynchophylla for the uncompetitive mode. These may therefore be candidates for use in delaying the progressive degeneration caused by neurological diseases.
Here's another one I found:
Monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) inhibition by active principles from Uncaria rhynchophylla.
Hou WC, Lin RD, Chen CT, Lee MH.

Graduate Institute of Pharmacognosy, Taipei Medical University, 250 Wu-Hsing Street, Taipei 110, Taiwan.

Attenuation of monoamine oxidase B (MAO-B) activity may provide protection against oxidative neurodegeneration. For this reason, inhibition of MAO-B activity is used as part of the treatment of Parkinson's and Alzheimer's patients. The hook of Uncaria rhynchophylla (Miq.) Jacks. (Rubiaceae) is a traditional Chinese herbal drug that is generally used to treat convulsive disorders. In this study, the fractionation and purification of Uncaria rhynchophylla extracts using a bioguided assay isolated two known compounds, (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin. The compounds inhibited MAO-B, as measured by an assay of rat brain MAO-B separated by electrophoresis on a 7.5% native polyacrylamide gel. The IC(50) values of (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin were 88.6 and 58.9 microM, respectively, and inhibition occurred in a dose-dependent manner, as measured by the fluorescence method. The Lineweaver-Burk plot revealed K(i) values for (+)-catechin and (-)-epicatechin of 74 and 21 microM, respectively. This suggests that these two compounds, isolated here for the first time from Uncaria rhynchophylla, might be able to protect against neurodegeneration in vitro, and, therefore, the molecular mechanism deserves further study. This finding may also increase interest in the health benefits of Uncaria rhynchophylla.

Kie Ti Koal
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by Kie Ti Koal » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:42 pm

I'm very interested in this botanical!

I'd get off the bullshit your taking (and STAY OFF IT for 30+ days) and then start taking Cat's Claw!

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Zombiesoul
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by Zombiesoul » Tue Mar 03, 2009 4:52 pm

Doc's STILL prescribe Nardil? That shit is dangerous. This cat's claw stuff is interesting. Itmeans you could take straight PEA and get a serious amphetmaine-like buzz. Too bad I don't get speed anymore from the doc as :I would try this combo.

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confusion
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by confusion » Tue Mar 03, 2009 10:43 pm

i took rather large doses of cats claw extract for about a month, without realizing this...
didnt notice any effects, though, either

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mitragyna
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by mitragyna » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:11 am

Zombiesoul wrote:Doc's STILL prescribe Nardil? That shit is dangerous. This cat's claw stuff is interesting. Itmeans you could take straight PEA and get a serious amphetmaine-like buzz. Too bad I don't get speed anymore from the doc as :I would try this combo.
Hah, my doc does. It may be dangerous, but it's one of the BEST drugs for depression/anxiety (besides opiates of course). To be honest, most of the food interactions don't exist in a lot of people. I can eat whatever I want, with no ill effects. It's just some people do get the "cheese" effect, so hence the warning.

I haven't taken Nardil with PEA (way too dangerous, fucking norepinephrine overload!), but I've taken PEA with Selegiline. And yes, it gave me a WILD buzz. Stronger than any dose of amphetamine I've taken (prescribed of course)...but also much shorter lasting. As a matter of fact, I became addicted to this combo, and was dosing PEA about every 30 minutes for 3 months! Be careful with MAOI's and PEA...seriously...

ZB return my email if ya would please...

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mitragyna
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by mitragyna » Sat Mar 07, 2009 12:17 am

Kie Ti Koal wrote:I'm very interested in this botanical!

I'd get off the bullshit your taking (and STAY OFF IT for 30+ days) and then start taking Cat's Claw!
May be bullshit to you, but Nardil has dramatically improved my life like I never thought possible. For some people, it's the only thing that will get them out of the blackhole of depression. Not to mention my anxiety used to be so bad (before taking Nardil), I wouldn't leave my house even if it was on fire (no exaggeration).

I have to add that I tried just about everything for the depression besides prescription drugs (CBT, psycho-therapy, Yoga, etc.) with no luck. This came as a last resort.

So please, think about that next time you say something like that...

kitt3.193
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by kitt3.193 » Sat Mar 07, 2009 1:34 am

Seriously scary. That's all I have to say about that.
Image

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Zombiesoul
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by Zombiesoul » Sat Mar 07, 2009 2:10 am

I used to read about selegiline/pea at the ole Hive.
If they were into it, you knew they were on to something for the most part.

I've heard of people becoming addicted to PEA by itself by gulping heaping spoonfuls of the stuff as much as every 15 minutes.

Is the selegiline or MAO-A necessary to use high-dose PEA.

I imagine simple DL-PA and possibly a strong cat's claw extract could produce strong stimulant effects.
mitragyna wrote:Hah, my doc does. It may be dangerous, but it's one of the BEST drugs for depression/anxiety (besides opiates of course). To be honest, most of the food interactions don't exist in a lot of people. I can eat whatever I want, with no ill effects. It's just some people do get the "cheese" effect, so hence the warning.

I haven't taken Nardil with PEA (way too dangerous, fucking norepinephrine overload!), but I've taken PEA with Selegiline. And yes, it gave me a WILD buzz. Stronger than any dose of amphetamine I've taken (prescribed of course)...but also much shorter lasting. As a matter of fact, I became addicted to this combo, and was dosing PEA about every 30 minutes for 3 months! Be careful with MAOI's and PEA...seriously...

ZB return my email if ya would please...

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mitragyna
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by mitragyna » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:13 am

Zombiesoul wrote:I used to read about selegiline/pea at the ole Hive.
If they were into it, you knew they were on to something for the most part.

I've heard of people becoming addicted to PEA by itself by gulping heaping spoonfuls of the stuff as much as every 15 minutes.

Is the selegiline or MAO-A necessary to use high-dose PEA.

I imagine simple DL-PA and possibly a strong cat's claw extract could produce strong stimulant effects.
I would stay away from PEA if you're on an MAO-A Inhibitor. I would imagine it'd be more dangerous with Nardil (MAO-A-I) than Selegiline (MAO-B-I), being that it's not selective. On Selegiline, MAO-A will still deaminate the PEA, just much slower. With Nardil, you've got nothing to deaminate it.

Yes, people can reach an effect using PEA without an MAOI, but they usually use enormous amounts. When they do this, all their MAO is being occupied by the PEA, so the PEA basically is the MAOI then.

Some people get a fairly strong reaction when combining an MAOI with DLPA, but I'm not one of them. I feel a subtle PEA-like effect, but that's about it.

I guess the problem is, the levels of MAOIs in many plants just aren't usefully high. So yes, extracts are the way to go (especially in this case). I would be quite curious to try a highly potent Cat's Claw extract to test how much MAO inhibition it actually accomplishes.

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mitragyna
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Re: Cat's Claw - MAO-B Inhibitor -

Post by mitragyna » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:17 am

kitt3.193 wrote:Seriously scary. That's all I have to say about that.
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???:?

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