P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

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Glen@edot
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Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:37 pm

P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by Glen@edot » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:04 pm

Ive havnt been around since Edot went down but Ive been working as an arborist in Georgia recently. I found these on 2 consecutive days at two completely separate jobs approximately 10 miles apart the first were what I suspected at first might be weilli but think are caerulescens as they had extremely prominent rhizomorphs among other things. One of the other things being that the next day I found a different species which seem to conform much more to what a weillii would be. In the suspected caerulescens the spore prints were identified as purple-ish brown by a number of people with no knowledge of fungal identification and no prompting of information in order to obtain unbiased independent confirmation as well as witnessing significant blue-ing in both collections though much more pronounced in the first collection (suspected P. caerulescens). Ill try to add the pics but never have posted on this site before so not sure if they will work just yet. Any one have any opinions or tips re: these?
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Glen@edot
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by Glen@edot » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:08 pm

Apparently cant put up more then 3 pics... Those i think? Are caerulescens. These following might be weillii

Glen@edot
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by Glen@edot » Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:14 pm

These are the suspected weillii
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mjshroomer2014
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by mjshroomer2014 » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:09 am

Psilocybe weilii is the same mushroom as Psilocybe caerulescens. The original chemical research and taxonomy was by Gartz and Stamets but Stamets failed to credit Gartz wiht the chemical research. ALso thenn Guzman named the species and he was wrong at the time in his identification. Years ago I posted that P. Weilii was probably P. caerulescens and no one cared.

Now DNA shows that it is Psilocybe weilii the same mushroom as Psilocybe caerulescens.
mjshroomer2014

Glen@edot
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by Glen@edot » Thu Nov 05, 2015 10:03 pm

MJ, you also have much more experience in dealing with this genus then most people especially Edoters.... I started mushroom hunting around 1996 (in NY at that time. Until the time of this post I picked and ID'ed 1000's of mushrooms without finding any of the genus ( except for a possible P. semilanceolata which I was unable to collect for identification. )I did however after maybe 10 years become confident enough to begin collecting and cooking with various edible species. My point being that few if any Edoters would have been in any position to either support or refute yourhypothesis of p. Caerulescens/weillei being synonymous. I found a number of other specimens in the weeks following my post. All of which phenotypically conformed wth the collections I suspected were caerulescens. I am aware that environmental conditions can alter phenotypic expression and would most certainlnot make a definite claim as to either ID being co

mjshroomer2014
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by mjshroomer2014 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:52 pm

Here is a link to the chapter on P. caerulescens and P. weilii. A new paper is currently being published by Guzman on this mistake. It is a common mistake since some mycologists in different places might name a mushroom with different names placing them in various genera of the agaricales.

Psilocybe cubensis for instance has about 9 names that are all synonyms.

Now that DNA shows that P. weilii is the same mushroom as the first named one was Psilocybe cubensis, then the name P. cubensis would be the correct name of the species.

Liberty caps do grow along the southern Ontario border with New York or and they grow up into northeastern Canada in Quebec and New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and Prince Edward Island on the Northeast coast of the Americas. Mycologist Redhead deposited specimens decades ago.

mjshroomer2014,

mjshroomer2014
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by mjshroomer2014 » Sun Nov 08, 2015 8:55 pm

The link to the chapter in my book, Divine Mushrooms and fungi.

http://mushroomjohn.org/Chapter-27-28.pdf

This is on P. weilii and P. caerulescens as well as a chapter here on P. mexicana, P. tampanensis and P. galindoi. The are all Psilocybe mexicana and in the Nederland they are sold as Truffle Magic and as Magic Truffles. All scams on those who buy the tampanensis and P. galindoi since they are the same as P. mexicana.

mjshroomer2014

Glen@edot
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by Glen@edot » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:11 am

That is indeed news to me but I have not been able to devote much if any time to the things I would like to for quite some time.
As to mycological identification... I used to go mushroom hunting with a very well regarded mycologist in GA. Aside from possibly SEM, Id say even microscopic spore characteristics are to variable and subjective to be very useful. For example ( if I remember correctly)one time we found either an oyster (pleourotus? I forget the spelling) OR a collybia. The actual deciding factor was if the spores were ovoid or elliptical ( i forget if that was exactly the terms) but it was so subjective we couldnt make a positive ID. In fungi mating systems it might be that there can be more intraspecific variation then we might expect based on more familiar mating systems.
Would you say the mushrooms I found were both of the same species? Id be happy to show more pics. I have not analysed the spores as I dont have a hgh quality microscope. They were significantly different phenotypicaly

mjshroomer2014
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Re: P. caerulescens and P. weillii in GA?

Post by mjshroomer2014 » Mon Nov 09, 2015 4:48 pm

A genus such as Psilocybe has many different characteristics that define what family they belong to. Your mushrooms are P. caerulescens. P. weilii is just a synonym for P. caerulescens. The latter lame of P.. weilii is no longer a name for the species. P. caerulescens was discovered in 1924 iun Huntscvillle, Alabama, it is thwe same shroom Leary ate in Cuernavaca, Mexico in 1960 and the same the Wasson's ate in Oaxaca in 2955 and after as well./

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