Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

[thelightpanther]

I just came back from a Chautauqua with the too-much-coffee beings. They told me to drum my fingers more, fidget in my seat, and stare red-eyed into the night.

Man, I hate those guys.

[thelightpanther]

Burningmouth, here's what I was referring to:

Anyway, a little while ago, the same thing happened. I smoked, listened to some music that I previously had not heard before, and the music was seemingly transformed for the better during the minute or two of peak salvinorin performance. Later, I listened to it again, and I could easily tell where the music had been reinvented and rematerialized. This seems to only happen to music that I’m listening to for the first time. Apparently, reality needs fragile avenues in which to rematerialize itself. One such avenue is previously un-listened to music.

Had I been listening to 'Stairway To Heaven', it would have been much more difficult for the song to become rematerialized. The neural pathways in my brain would have prevented re-materialization. But with a previously unheard song, the neural pathways aren't already established, thus re-materialization is a stronger probability.

So here’s what I’m saying:
During the peak salvinorin temporal phase, I was able to recreate the world around me; not in a major way, such as turning my neighborhood into a twisted, post apocalyptic wheel of splintered plywood and deformed fir trees. But in a more gentle way; such as permanently recreating a song.

I’m also saying this:
Not only did I change the song. By changing the song, an entire universe connected to the song was also downloaded (collapsed). The newly collapsed universe contained another WONR3RBOY, another SL24, another 2ofMe. Instead of one more 2ofMe, there are actually 10^500 2ofMe in the quantum universe. There are 10^500 SL24s, etc. My mind simply downloaded a newly collapsed version of reality from the 10^500 uncollapsed versions of reality out there.

[thelightpanther]

I guess there is a difference in nuance here. To be honest, I find it a little hard to get my mind around the concept of “salvia reality.” I have a similar difficulty with the phrases “salvia beings” and “salvia mythology.” Here’s why:

To me, salvia is an “enabler” which (temporarily) alters the performance characteristics of your awareness motor. Consider it like pumping richer fuel into the fuel system. I really have no idea what it would mean to say that there is an earth based plant that has a stable domain of its action located not even in this universe. To me, the enabler is the thing that is throwing the consciousness into a state which, for the sake of argument, we can refer to loosely as “quantum superposition” (I am not soldered to quantum realism, so don’t be overly concerned about that). While the enabler function is active, you have a (temporary) ability to trespass upon inter-probability space, something that is more or less completely off limits (in a macro sense) during normal brain function because it would, in any normal terms at least, interfere GRIEVOUSLY with your regular function as a space-time animal. When the enabler function begins to wear off, the block on the ability of your mind to access its “home” probability wears off, and you are back, with your brain shaking off the effects of salvia like a dog shaking off after a dip in a lake.

That said, it is definitely true that not everyone experiences some variation of this scenario. The book “peopled darkness,” for example, goes on and on about one thing only…apparent encounters with beings that the author seems to interpret as deceased versions of humans….albeit never particular humans known to him who have died. This is more like your own statement of there being just one “parallel” world. On the other hand, I can't really make much sense of there being only one parallel world. That would be a remedial case only for the concept of parallelism, no? One might as well just go with shamanic tradition and call that the spirit world, I reckon. And as I mentioned earlier, Saint Brian has hundreds of experiences, but almost all of them concerning alternate material versions of himself and his bedroom in a regular physical framework.

The picture varies, then. If there is an “ontological engine” underlying all this, then it has to be deeper than the variants.

What I am calling the ontological engine is a small subset of deep thematic undercurrents suggesting the way that reality actually functions, as disclosed to the depth operating in that particular state of consciousness. Even the human waking state could be said to have such an engine. The rhythms of that particular engine sound something like this:

1) Other people really and independently exist

2) Time and space exist.

3) The privileged moment exists…this “really is” December 2016, not just for you, but for all other beings.

4) Etc.

The ontological engine of the salvia state, however, appears to me to make a number of altered but fairly consistent statements (taken across a large enough number of users) about the deeper nature of reality. Significant among these are:

1) Your particular experienced world is just one among a vast (and perhaps infinite) number of probable worlds that exist in their own terms now, and can in principle be summoned forth.

2) The privileged moment is an illusion. It is democratically all possible time points. For instance, existence can summon 1876, and George Armstrong Custer is dying right now at Little Bighorn.

3) In this deeper state of consciousness, you are exposed to the raw force of existence like the wind scouring a high hilltop, and the approach of the Singularity is sensed. IMO, this leads to a whole complex of hallucinated patterns revolving around “secrets,” “hidden machinery,” “forbidden knowledge,” “punishments for transgression,” and so on. I think this pattern shows up in other contexts too where the Singularity is close, such as “near death experiences” with their entire mythology of “you must go back” and “you still have a mission to accomplish” as well as the “carnivals and circuses” and the “Aeon is a child playing with colored balls” of the DMT trip. The underlying theme is this: masks are there to protect you; stop taking them off.

4) Consciousness invested in inanimate objects and the world built up out of “tykes” or “gingerbread men” or “machine elves” or whatever one wants to call them.

This is not a complete list, but it covers some of the major patterns.

To the extent that what you are calling “salvia mythology” is rooted in the deep rhythms of this ontological engine, I think it has some truth in it. But these engines are jealous. They growl at each other in the dark, like bears prowling the margins of a forest. The salvia engine has quiet contempt for the baseline engine, because it’s a prostitute and a hussie. On the other hand, the baseline engine is suspicious of the salvia engine because she’s a dark-eyed gypsy who can read her fortune and spirit her away in the night.

[peoploid]

Burningmouth, here's what I was referring to:

Anyway, a little while ago, the same thing happened. I smoked, listened to some music that I previously had not heard before, and the music was seemingly transformed for the better during the minute or two of peak salvinorin performance......break......The newly collapsed universe contained another WONR3RBOY, another SL24, another 2ofMe. Instead of one more 2ofMe, there are actually 10^500 2ofMe in the quantum universe. There are 10^500 SL24s, etc. My mind simply downloaded a newly collapsed version of reality from the 10^500 uncollapsed versions of reality out there.

WoW, That was a pretty damn good post, if I do say so myself. I remember writing that. A lot of my posts were written in the 'after-glow' phase of the salvia trip. I've always felt that, to truly speak about salvia, one must still be temporally close to the experience. Only someone currently smoking plain leaf or extract has a right to speak. I think so even today. 'Peoploid' has no real right to speak about salvia. Burningmouth had a right because he was constantly visiting salviaspace.

I have to take burningmouth's word as far as the differing musical sounds go. His post makes sense, especially the part about newly created neural pathways compared to established pathways. What REALLY hits home is his/my comment about there being a multitude of WOND3RBOY, 2ofMe, and SL24. I REALLY felt that – that there were multiple versions of each of us. I could sense different time stamps, different worlds, different versions of the SAME PEOPLE logging on and reading my posts. But these multitudes are only sensed while under the effects of salvia.

So now I have to rethink my idea of there being one dominant parallel world. Perhaps I place all parallel worlds into one conceptual space because all those worlds are so similar. But yeah, no doubt about it, I have, on more than one occasion, deeply perceived there being multiple versions of people reading my posts.

You say you have a hard time getting your mind around the concept of salvia reality. Who here hasn't smoked salvia? Panther raises his hand. Maybe if you smoked some 10x, you would have an understanding of what I call salvia reality. It's just the phrase I use. Most people say salviaspace.

What a big pants-load “Peopled Darkness” was. I was really anticipating reading that book(let). JD Arthur is an outsider. He wrote that as if he had never come in contact with a single molecule of salvinorin A. And those glowing reviews on Amazon. A bunch of new-agers with armpit hair.

Woman selling crystals in Sedona, AZ – “Oh, have you read “Peopled Darkness"?”
Her friend wearing a ring through her nose – “Oh my god, yes. My Ouija board said I would love it, and I did!”

I'm totally on board with your two engines, the human waking state and the salvia state.

At least you and I are trying to lend some kind of structure to the hidden complexities surrounding us. If you had asked these questions ten years ago, you probably would have gotten answers from fifteen different members (instead of one). Hey, more glory for me.

To the extent that what you are calling “salvia mythology” is rooted in the deep rhythms of this ontological engine, I think it has some truth in it. But these engines are jealous. They growl at each other in the dark, like bears prowling the margins of a forest. The salvia engine has quiet contempt for the baseline engine, because it’s a prostitute and a hussie.

In a weird way, amnesia keeps these beasts apart. While tripping, the ordinary waking state is forgotten. While not tripping, the salvia state is pretty much far in the background. I wonder if amnesia has a connection to (un)collapsed wave forms?

[thelightpanther]

I've always felt that, to truly speak about salvia, one must still be temporally close to the experience. Only someone currently smoking plain leaf or extract has a right to speak. I think so even today.

Hello Burningmouth. Is this a cryptic comment to the effect that I shouldn't reply anymore? I will honor your wish if so. Let me know...

[peoploid]

panther wrote:
"Is this a cryptic comment to the effect that I shouldn't reply anymore?"

No. Everyone has a right to discuss salvia. I was chastising 'peoploid', because he hasn't smoked in four years. Due to all the amnesia, peoploid can barely remember the wild, complex, and revelatory rides he used to take on the salvia carpet. This distancing bugs the hell out of him. When he/I was posting on his blog, he was oftentimes only minutes away from the actual trip. Therefore, his beef is with HIMSELF.
The salvia experience is a kind of spiritual experience. Peoploid hasn't been in salviaspace since he last smoked. He has lost contact with that 'spiritual' force. I used to equate the salvia 'affect' to the Christian 'holy spirit'. Researchers used to say that salvia didn't produce a 'euphoric buzz'. Bullshit is my answer to that. Salvia can produce a wonderful affect.

"Not reply anymore"? Are you kidding me? This has been one of the best back and forth interactions I've ever had. Until you showed up, all I was doing was spewing self-aggrandizing bullshit.
YOU SAVED THIS THREAD.

[thelightpanther]

Well, alright then.

It is true that a molecule of Salvanorin A has never touched my lips (unlike J.D. Arthur…which, whatever you think of him, it certainly has). I wasn’t too keen on that book, but it did say at least some interesting things, and it does show how everyone’s experience is not the same. There was no shadow of parallel worlds in his experiences, but there was a running thread of some kind of weird and obscure “mentoring” on the part of the people he perceived himself to be in contact with, and that does kind of jive with your own comments on salvia beings “watching us” along with the idea of a kind of "consent" being required, somehow.

My main concern in all of this is as follows. Parallel worlds and probability travel are all finally so much hot air unless a practical way of harnessing this (with control, as well as raw power) is achieved. Salvia is certainly raw power. It certainly suggests a “probability wheel”…and it suggests it quite strongly…but it doesn’t prove its own premises. Skidding like an ice puck across All_Potential to land god-knows-where can hardly be called control. Not being able to stay at destination is not control. Not being able to get BACK is not control. You did salvia 400 times. Yet you are still in a probability track that is barely different from the one you started in, by your own admission. If probability travel is possible, then there is some kind of important missing variable here. I want your considered thoughts on this, burningmouth, as to me it is the most important thing.

Either someone has “wheel clamps” on us…and as you have alluded to yourself, that would make them borderline criminals. Or we don’t understand all the necessary parameters involved. We discovered a raw rocket fuel. But not a navigation mechanism. Both are needed to reach the moon. The first without the second can blow you up before you reach the moon. The second without the first can leave you stranded on the wrong moon:

[peoploid]

You make a good point. I'm pretty much the same person I was ten years ago. The world around me is basically the same. When I tripped, I realized just how solidly built is our physical encampment here on this (particular) Earth. With all the forces (strong, weak, etc) we are like captive prisoners walking the curved side-streets of our slowly rotating carnival planet.

I used to be a metaphorical surfer, paddling out to catch the parallel waves of salvia space. Sure, I was able to ride the waves for micro-moments, but never did I actually capture the elusive salvia mermaid.

I've always had a messiah complex (as you might have gleaned). I ended up a failed messiah like all the other corpses lining the roads to Rome. Like Jan-Michael Vincent, a once beautiful actor in “Big Wednesday”, I'm now a washed up relic.

You seem to want to discover a way to enter parallel worlds surrounding us. I can see three ways for you to accomplish this:
1. If you're independently wealthy, create your own salvia research center.
2. If you have an advanced degree in theoretical physics, use your scientific knowledge to accomplish your goals.
3. If you are just a guy perusing the internets, write a great screenplay starring a young version of Robert Downey Jr.. Future physicists will be inspired by you to carry the torch through the rest of the 21st century.

[thelightpanther]

Hi Burningmouth.

You do yourself an injustice. I don’t think you’re a washed up relic. In fact, you have a great deal of experience with this plant, of exactly the kind that could actually make a difference if you wielded it in the right way. To be honest, none of your three point list would be enough to really make a difference. What is actually needed is a whole new category of “explorer driven research” which simply doesn’t exist at the moment on the face of (this) earth, and which the science machine has no present paradigm for. It would be an ontological paradigm change and nothing less. It would have to involve more than eggheads…though eggheads importantly *could not be left out.*

I don’t mean to be rude to you…I like you a lot…but you can either fritter away your time waiting for Robert Downey Junior to save the day (you’ll wait forever), or you can listen to what I’m saying and have at least a shot at making a difference in the realm of parallel worlds or probability space by the end of your (this) lifetime (and mine). Those with your experience need to have a dialogue with those whose resources are attached to real research capability. The dialogue may well be awkward and informal at first, but then all such dialogues are. You could also write a book. You have the chops for it AND the experience. I like the whimsicality of your blog voice, and I jive with it, but it's not the right voice for the particular dialogue I am talking about. You have to meet the Strassmans of the world in their own language. Their support is already fragile, but they need to be convinced that their support is worthwhile. Salvia does not yet have its Strassman, salvia does not yet have its Jansen…but she/he/they are out there. This research profile would require correlated experience between naïve users unaware of each other’s agenda. It would need correlated outcome with the experienced world…such as your changing the music track, or Saint Brain waking his dog…but as I said earlier, it must be pragmatically trackable, even if the effect is small. Decades of “parapsychology” have not dented the consensus paradigm, but this is because it is deniable in a way that direct first-hand experience is not. "First hand experience" and "pragmatic research" have been divorced. A reunion is the nature of the change that must occur.

Consensus reality also seeks to protect itself, and I don’t even think it does this willfully. It’s unconscious. All the reflexive law enforcement, etc. But do you remember the Iraqi minister of information, during Gulf War I, Tariq Aziz, who insisted that everything was just fine in Baghdad even as tanks were rolling in to the outskirts of the city? Appearances can be deceiving. The tanks rolling in here are an expansion of our worldview to include the concept of probability space, and “Baghdad” is the current consensus paradigm. Furthermore, even should that fail, I think nature has its own idea. For all I know, salvia divinorum appeared with just that purpose…of coercing an ontic paradigm change. You can struggle to control people’s use of a plant, but it’s difficult to control the plant world itself. Nature can produce another such plant. And another. Or it could tamper with our sensorium directly, and suddenly we have another peculiar condition or “syndrome”…call it “consensus collapse disorder” or “chronic paradigm fatigue syndrome.” Humans may think they’re smart, but nature is not mocked. Life will find a way. If necessary it will make our particular species extinct in order to do this, but there may still be time.

Pull on your salvia knowledge thread, Burningmouth. You’re a veteran and an expert. There are people out there who need to know what it is that you have seen and why it is that they should listen. Don’t worry about doing everything yourself. The Dean Radins of the world are smart. They will figure out a way to give a research design pragmatic traction.

Ideas can be ignored. Pragmatic outcome cannot be ignored. The more significant or far reaching that outcome, the less the possibility of it being ignored.

[thelightpanther]

You seem to want to discover a way to enter parallel worlds surrounding us.

I suspect that the idea of “parallel worlds” will melt away as our understanding deepens, and we will understand reality to be a richer place, with much more complex forms of “travel” possible within it.

Now unless you are already living some kind of optimized human life, or unless you are living under some version of the idea that suffering is noble, I ask you in all seriousness who would NOT want the thing I have quoted you in, above. Consider the concept that all possibilities exist, even if that existence is somehow “virtual” until activated. Even if they are virtual, they are pre-manifest somehow, they have a kind of existence, and this is exactly the thing that we don’t understand. By acting upon probability space in certain ways, it may be possible to draw certain probabilities closer, to the point where they are hovering right over us in the ante-theater of declared expression, so to speak.

Now humans have a curious fondness for their excruciating sweat and tears, which they call “striving” and a “work ethic.” But I suspect it will eventually be discovered that our strenuous efforts are really just the traversing of probability space by a laborious, circuitous means. A bit like changing a light bulb by holding the bulb in place and rotating the ceiling. This is a doable task, but no one in possession of their sanity would ever do it again after even one person became acquainted with the simpler method for changing a light bulb.

Consider. Someone is stricken with cancer. In the year 2xyz, instead of tortuously expending truckloads of effort and energy trying to “cure” it, in a probability track where variables are likely set in obstruction against you to begin with, you start the process of migrating through the landscape of All_Potential to a worldline where the cancer IS_NOT, or at least, where its red star is already fading. Now I’m not saying there won’t be any gotchas with that. None of us know right now. Perhaps the possible reach across All_Potential is limited. Perhaps a chance exists at the beginning, but if it is left too late the cancer will also “spread” across all local contours of the person’s probability landscape until the timelines where it doesn’t exist aren’t even reachable anymore. I don’t know. But they are the kind of questions that are exciting, no?

Probability travel may one day be as common as yachting, or a drive in the country. I am haunted by the suspicion that it might just be stupid inertia that locks us into one experienced world. When we were locked each on our own continent, no one showed up to say “hey guys, y'know there’s this really cool thing you could do called shipping. I mean, DOH.” We had to discover it for ourselves. Likewise with air travel. People had to die jumping off the end of piers with stupid seagull costumes on so that people can work on their laptops in business class. Same with space travel. Folks had to die on the launch pad before we ever put Armstrong on the moon. And this doesn’t even include those who blew themselves up in the rocket fuel research labs or those test pilots whose aircraft disintegrated in the stratosphere. I guess I’m skeptical of saviors from the “salvia realms” showing up with magical technology for us. It’s a version of the “space brothers” stuff from the UFO contactee era. Whenever we’ve discovered a new way of travel, it’s been our own name on the rocket. I’m not convinced it will be any different here.

And yet… (post pending)