Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

This is the place to discuss Salvia divinorum, splendins, and the other psychoactive salvias.
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thelightpanther
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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:02 pm

4) salvia may well be interfering with a version of state vector reduction inside the brain, with the result that these possibilities "back up" and are no longer factored down to one single experienced outcome.

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thelightpanther
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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:05 pm

5) One of the normal functions of the brain may then be to give the "cover story" that only one probability strand legitimately exists.

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thelightpanther
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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:08 pm

6) I have the feeling that this cover story is created by the brain hammering out or "laminating" an atemporal state of ALL_POTENTIAL into a single, perceived possibility track. Salvia delaminates this track and throws the experiencing consciousness into a quantum superposition.

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Thu Dec 15, 2016 5:08 pm

Is there a moderator here? It's excruciating to hold a conversation one sentence at a time...

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by unsigned_char72 » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:27 am

@thelightpanther don't know what's wrong with your account, anyway I removed you from the "newly" registered users group -- perhaps it's what is causing the problem. Tell me if it's ok now.

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:52 pm

Thank you unsigned_char, that seems to have helped. I tried to register just as panther, but apparently I was already in the system along with my email. I guess I tried to register before at some point, but forgot my password.

It would seem there is a fighting chance that salvia states have to do with quantum probability.

There is no solid evidence that quantum activity is involved in the brain. There is no solid evidence that the action of salvia has anything to do with quantum mechanics in the brain.

However, sometimes experience is capable of speaking with a strong voice, and the circumstantial evidence is strong. To begin with, Dean Radin’s version of the double slit experiment really does suggest that consciousness is capable of collapsing the wavefunction. Secondly, experience of alternative probable outcomes, lives, and worlds is a very, very common theme under salvia. It doesn’t show up in every single case, of course, but its appearance is consistent enough to warrant suspicion. Those activities and perceptions have a strong quantum “flavor” to them, and it would be a convenient coincidence indeed if quantum action occurs in the brain, and yet this strong flavor of experience turns out to have nothing to do with it. Then there is also the intution of many salvia users, within the experience, that this is precisely the import of those experiences. Again, there is no absolute guarantee that this “sense of certainty” corresponds to unassailable, as we would say it “objective” truth, but in the light of all of the above, it would seem that a reasonably strong prima facie case exists.

That being said, the case would run something like this. Despite superficial appearances, reality is in actual fact some kind of unbounded expression of ALL POSSIBLE POTENTIALS. It may even be the case that every single one of those potentials has a living reality, right now, and our perception under normal circumstances is narrowed down by contrivance of the nervous system to give a much more simplified, but also greatly decomposed and problematic, form of reality, capable of being experienced by an animal organism without insanity.

To my way of seeing things, it looks salvia interferes directly with this action. Under normal circumstances the nervous system is coercing quantum collapse by strong observation upon the realm of ALL_POTENTIAL. The speculation is that salvia interrupts or interferes with this process, causing possible outcomes to “back up” and become visible to the experiencing mind. Another way to say that is this: the larger definition of your organism (which is a pattern resident in ALL_POTENTIAL) is prevented from accessing the particular collapsed possibility that was its experienced world. It immediately begins a kind of “emergency search” procedure, trying to locate another viable probability strand (usually nearby), where consciousness can again know itself in a discrete, experienceable world.

I don’t think that “frame stacking” cuts it. Certainly, frames are involved, but IMO these frames are ontic, and bear directly on quantum probability outcomes, or what popular language would call “possible worlds.” They are not just perceptual, let alone hallucinatory. Radin’s experiments with the double slit are not hallucinatory either. It may be time to bite a bullet here.
Last edited by thelightpanther on Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:17 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Fri Dec 16, 2016 6:06 pm

I am aware of course that multiverse theory has existed for a long time, and is nothing new. Personally, I’m not sure whether calling these potentials “universes” is strictly accurate or not. In one sense, it doesn’t matter.

There also arises the bold possibility that salvia users can sometimes go on a one-way journey during a deep experience. That is, the emergency search to locate a similar world may succeed, and it is not this one. If the experiencing consciousness is authentically thrown into the state of ALL_POTENTIAL, then each of those potentials, or at least a broad subset of them, may have equal democratic likelihood of quantum collapse for the salvianaut. Indeed, in no shortage of experiences, there appears to be an urgent sense dawning on the salvianaut that a version of this statement is in fact true.

Even when the voyager returns, or appears to return, to the "same world” from which they initiated the salvia journey, and while this certainly doesn’t formally prove that they “went” anywhere, the similarity to where they left also doesn’t prove that they continue to occupy the same probability strand they occupied before the experience. There may be thousands, or millions, of parallel strands too proximal to even call. And of course, the audacious scenario of deeper probability travel presents itself, at least in principle. If one can move a little, then it is doubtful that there is a fundamental barrier to moving a lot…though there may be pragmatic difficulties. Many salvianauts have felt that if they elected to remain in their perceived destination by choice, they would be there now. It is far from impossible, to my mind, that their intuition on the matter is entirely false. If quantum probability states are involved...and I glean the suspicion that they are...then we are dealing with events of ontological impact.

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by peoploid » Fri Dec 16, 2016 7:31 pm

thelightpanther wrote:Under normal circumstances the nervous system is coercing quantum collapse by strong observation upon the realm of ALL_POTENTIAL. The speculation is that salvia interrupts or interferes with this process, causing possible outcomes to “back up” and become visible to the experiencing mind. Another way to say that is this: the larger definition of your organism (which is a pattern resident in ALL_POTENTIAL) is prevented from accessing the particular collapsed possibility that was its experienced world. It immediately begins a kind of “emergency search” procedure, trying to locate another viable probability strand (usually nearby), where consciousness can again know itself in a discrete, experienceable world.

I don’t think that “frame stacking” cuts it.
:o DAMN, panther. I wish I could write screenplays. I can see someone like Robert Downey Jr., a scientist by day and a salvianaut by night, using your exact words in describing his salvia excursions. Throw in some sci fi/horror action and 2017 era graphic arts, and we've got one hell of a movie.

I also don't think 'frame stacking' cuts it. Salvia experiences are too qualitatively complex for frame stacking.
I love what you are inferring about the tripper accessing what is proximal to his/our shared view of the conventional world around us. I always wondered why our salvia experiences usually involve scenarios somewhat similar to what we normally perceive. Maybe it's related to the law of collapsing probabilities. You are better at understanding this stuff than I am.

How do quantum states explain 'the wheel'?
Why do we see interconnecting peoploids (strings of simplified humanoids connected together?
I think I read once that it was related to the brain's use of 'face recognition' neural pathways.
I also read once that the 'EUREKA' experience felt by trippers was related to a chemical in the brain that produces feeling of awe. So the idea of uncovering the BIG SECRET is a chemically produced phenomenon. But I believe that the Eureka experience is real and is based on uncovering something actually ontologically real.

I used to have a weird experience when tripping on extract. My physical heart always seemed to prevent me from actually entering into a parallel world. It's like my mind could go there, but my specific heart couldn't. It felt like my heart would burst upon actually entering a parallel world/quantum state.
Also, my physical eyes seemed to be involved in the salvia hallucination.

Have you seen my blogpost
http://peoploid.blogspot.com/2016/01/sa ... vered.html
There's some heavy shit in that post regarding doppelgangers and being "out of sequence". Is the "out of sequence" phenomenon related to the proximity of quantum states?

A guy used to post here named salvialover24. He taught physics at a university in Europe by day and smoked plain leaf by night. He had some interesting things to say about quantum physics. You might want to check out some of his previous threads and posts.

I could quote you even more but it's getting dark. It might get down to zero tonight. I probably won't be able to post anything more till Monday.

You should seriously think of parlaying your knowledge into a good screenplay. When someone finally has the wherewithal to get it made, IT WILL BE A BLOCKBUSTER.

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thelightpanther
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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by thelightpanther » Fri Dec 16, 2016 11:04 pm

Hi burningmouth. Thanks for replying. I have read all of your blog and most of the posts you reference. I’ve thought about this a lot before speaking up. That doesn’t make me right of course, but hopefully it makes it just a microbe less improbable. I wasn’t really on board with salvialover’s numbers thing, I’m afraid. They were interesting threads though.

You ask:
“How do quantum states explain 'the wheel’?”

On the assumption (and it is an assumption on my part) that ALL_POTENTIAL is at least one key and perhaps irreducible feature of a ground of being in which we are all immersed, this is not really something I readily think would lend itself to being “explained.” It may however lend itself to being “represented” as best as an animal mind, sometimes in a state of near panic, might attempt to grasp it. Consider again that you are suddenly launched into a state of massive probability superposition. You find yourself suddenly falling, and perhaps even “browsing” through these many, many possibilities. How do we browse as humans? What images might come to mind that would do the job of scanning rapidly through many superficially similar structures? Well, we might flip through a book. We might zap through channels. We might spin a “rolodex” or a roulette wheel. We might zoom up a “tunnel” which has an almost infinite number of possible scenarios represented as “tiles” or "windows" in the walls of the tunnel. I have in my researches encountered all of these and many similar examples too. Despite the difference in concrete imagery, they are all essentially saying the ‘same thing’ in my opinion.

Don’t get me wrong. I am certainly not claiming that everything seen under salvia should be considered literally real. That would be a fast track to madness. But I do think there is an ontological engine secretly at work underneath it, and by looking closely, or listening carefully, you can see (or hear) this engine turning over.

You ask:
“Why do we see interconnecting peoploids (strings of simplified humanoids connected together)?”

Again, on the understanding that this is my opinion, I think that on salvia the voyager becomes intuitionally aware on some level that consciousness is an actor in the construction of reality. This, because in the raw space where it is manipulating and collapsing possibilities, it is directly exposed to that kind of knowledge by dint of its very action. Lo and behold, and with our understandable tendency towards anthropomorphism of abstract intuitions and natural forces, people perceive a whole bunch of tiny “actors”………”constructing”………..”reality.” They are not wholly mistaken, imo, but we also don't need to believe in a literal cosmos of gingerbread men. The mind is representing a deep knowledge it is suddenly exposed to, and it is doing it reflexively. I think that the "consciousness trapped in inanimate objects" motif is another variation on this same root theme.

It’s similar in my mind to the sheets and membranes thing. I very much doubt that the animal brain is equipped to perceive or process directly the ontological separators that define discrete (but distinguishable) probabilities (assuming of course that these exist...but I do assume that for the purposes of this discussion). We do however understand books and slide projector carousels and the brain/mind needs an image that can respond quick enough to the speed at which it is experiencing the startling event that has broken over it.

I have some questions for you, burningmouth, if I may, but these I will save for another post.

On the issue of frames and, as you put it “doppelgangers” I conceive that we may have been a bit hasty with our atoms and molecules in identifying what the primitives of existence really are. Perhaps those are primitives, but I would like to suggest that there is another kind of primitive. It may even be a more fundamental kind. Call these primitives “potentia.” Potentia are possible moments. There are a vast number of potentia associated with each conceivable moment. They may even be infinite for each moment. When salvia delaminates the collapsed world track, it not only backs up a cloud of all those possibilities, but it can also fragment our time-experience into its individual potentia. This may suggest that even our ‘normal’ experience of time is a kind of random micro-walk through the probability landscape, and salvia, on one level, is simply magnifying to a larger scale, a principle that is acting all the time, even in ordinary consciousness. And indeed, this would have to be the case if the surmise I started out with is true…namely, consciousness is the agent responsible for filtering between “alternatives.” Normally, we are like chain gang workers, with chains attached to our ankles…we can only make these tiny shuffles in one direction or another in the probability landscape. Salvia snaps these ankle chains with an emerald flash and now, suddenly, at least for a short while, you can take moon steps. But there are risks.

I think that’ll do for now. I tend to feed off conversation, so please do reply when you are able.

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Re: Best. Election. Ever. (or glitch in the Matrix?)

Post by peoploid » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:25 pm

thelightpanther wrote:we also don't need to believe in a literal cosmos of gingerbread men.
Ha Ha. i like that.

WoW. I would love to have heard a conversation between you and T McKenna. I used to get flyers from him announcing his next retreat. They usually cost around $200, but I didn't ever go because I was too damn CHEAP!. I did drive down to Ojai from Santa Barbara once to hear Krishnamurti speak because it was FREE, but I didn't understand a damn word that came out of his 80 year old, fragile mouth. Let's face it, McKenna was probably a bit of a bullshit artist, but he was a genius at captivating a crowd.
thelightpanther wrote: I wasn’t really on board with salvialover’s numbers thing, I’m afraid. They were interesting threads though.
I wasn't on board either - probably because I didn't really understand it. I'm impressed that you even know about it. You've really done your research. SL24 only did the plain leaf. He never delved into extract. I follow FrenchMachine's rule: if you're going to do salvia, you should go ALL OUT.


thelightpanther wrote:ALL_POTENTIAL is at least one key and perhaps irreducible feature of a ground of being in which we are all immersed, this is not really something I readily think would lend itself to being “explained.” It may however lend itself to being “represented” as best as an animal mind, sometimes in a state of near panic, might attempt to grasp it. Consider again that you are suddenly launched into a state of massive probability superposition. You find yourself suddenly falling, and perhaps even “browsing” through these many, many possibilities. How do we browse as humans? What images might come to mind that would do the job of scanning rapidly through many superficially similar structures? Well, we might flip through a book. We might zap through channels. We might spin a “rolodex” or a roulette wheel. We might zoom up a “tunnel” which has an almost infinite number of possible scenarios represented as “tiles” or "windows" in the walls of the tunnel. I have in my researches encountered all of these and many similar examples too. Despite the difference in concrete imagery, they are all essentially saying the ‘same thing’ in my opinion.
^What can I say about the above quote other than it was BEAUTIFULLY WRITTEN. I like the term 'ALL_POTENTIAL'. I wonder if my idea of sheets of worlds layering down on a massively dense, massively gravitational "global data-base" can be a representation of 'ALL_POTENTIAL'? And what's up with a somewhat common theme of trippers feeling "spread out" on some type of surface? I've been there, and it feels like I'm super-glued to the surface of a hallucinogenic membrane by some kind of strong force. I wonder if it has something to do with the idea of not being able to inhabit two distinct probabillty contractions at the same time. Maybe I'm locked onto a particular surface because I'm only allowed one particular surface at any one time. But that idea seems to run against the ability to flow through a multitude of parallel worlds effortlessly. Complex issues.

Also, my trips mostly involved seeing anthropomorphic 'salvia beings' who were similar to the world I inhabit. They were usually Caucasian, but not always. They never delved far from the rolodex of similarity. In other words, there were never any reptilians or black-eyed midgets with big heads.
thelightpanther wrote:Don’t get me wrong. I am certainly not claiming that everything seen under salvia should be considered literally real. That would be a fast track to madness. But I do think there is an ontological engine secretly at work underneath it, and by looking closely, or listening carefully, you can see (or hear) this engine turning over.
That was the vibe I would always get - THAT I WAS UNCOVERING THE ONTOLOGICAL BASIS OF TRUE REALITY. Did you say something about madness? I forget.
Excuse me for returning to the screenplay theme. I can see Robert Downey Jr, his face unshaven after a succession of several back to back 30x trips, look toward the camera and say in a low, matter of fact tone, "I think I was just given the opportunity to see the way the world really is, the way it operates underneath this coating of normalcy."
I WANT TO SEE THAT MOVIE.
thelightpanther wrote:when salvia delaminates the collapsed world track
That's a beautiful phrase. Could you explain that in layman's terms?
thelightpanther wrote:Normally, we are like chain gang workers, with chains attached to our ankles…we can only make these tiny shuffles in one direction or another in the probability landscape. Salvia snaps these ankle chains with an emerald flash and now, suddenly, at least for a short while, you can take moon steps. But there are risks.
Wonderfully written, also spoken by R.D. Jr.

You say you've never done salvia.....WHHHAAAATTTTTTTTT!!!!?????????? How is that possible? You therefore see the salvia experience through black and white eyes. You need to buy some 10x so that you can see the true colors of salvia.

Later, brothers and sisters.
Last edited by peoploid on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:56 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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