Astrophytum myristigma anyone?

This is the place to discuss Peyote, San Pedro, Donna Anna, etc.
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skywalker
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Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by skywalker » Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:18 pm

Recently I read something interesting about Astrophytum myriostigma...Do some EDOT members know someone who had (positive) experiences with this elusive cactus and/or can share further infos?
Thanks in advance.
Last edited by skywalker on Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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DayLight
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by DayLight » Thu Dec 03, 2009 2:59 pm

i have had many great experiences with astrophytum cacti.

they are slow, but full of joy. sometimes a weird "blooming" effect happens with astrophytum. those who have had the astrophytum experience know what im talking about.

during the astrophytum experience you feel as though you are a great caretaker, an overseer of a vast garden.

wait.

you are an overseer of a vast garden.

an astrophytum garden.

they're great for cacti hobbyists! :lol:

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Robotic Elf
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by Robotic Elf » Fri Dec 04, 2009 9:24 am

DayLight wrote:those who have had the astrophytum experience know what im talking about.
I know what you mean.

It can be a very long-lasting experience, IME -- Ed.

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mutant
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by mutant » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:30 am

Yes indeed. I have had this 'blooming' experience too, this was with the first Astro myriostigma I got. And guess what, I like it so much [apparently the cactus likes this too] that I am having this many times per season.

zakmalados
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by zakmalados » Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:27 pm

ah, sweet science! Mystical adventures in gardening gloves!

I don't think I've ever seen a thread or a post wherein anyone shared their experiences with that particular cactus.

There are some threads discussing the wide range of potentially entheogenic cacti that exist, but for the very great part they are all third party reports and or speculation and or quotes from Smith or Trout.

In fact, maybe M.S. Smith will have something to add to this. In particular, he would probably know facts about that particular cactus.

Otherwise, it seems that non-mescaline bearing cacti are a virgin field, waiting for an adventurer to liberate them. Just about nobody seems to have used any of them.

Zak

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golden
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by golden » Fri Dec 18, 2009 1:11 pm

anyone know if there are any effects from any of the other Astrophytums?
I have a Astrophytum Carpus.
________
FERRARI MODULO HISTORY
Last edited by golden on Mon May 02, 2011 12:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

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M_S_Smith
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by M_S_Smith » Sat Dec 26, 2009 10:21 am

Here's the Astrophytum section from my "Sacramental and Medicinal Cactus" (all rights reserved, M.S.Smith). I don't think any of these plants have had any traditional usage as entheogens, though this certainly doesn't rule out other uses. And of the two or three experiments I've heard about with A. myriostigma they were all failures, even with a large deal of material (which disturbed me if you have ever seen what a larger A. myriostigma looks like.)

~Michael~
Astrophytum asterias

The original citation of A. asterias as peyote comes from The Cactaceae by N.L. Britton & J.N. Rose where it is said that “Señor (Octavio) Solis says that the plant is known as peyote.” Schultes comments that A. asterias is “said to be either narcotic or medicinal,” but cites Britton & Rose who make no such claim. It is likely that Schultes simply made his suggestion based upon the earlier comments by Britton & Rose. Bravo simply indicates that the species carries the common name of peyote while not mentioning any ethnobotanical use.

Britton & Rose’s, Bravo’s, and Schultes’ own comments in both his 1937 articles, Peyote and Plants Used in the Peyote Ceremony (April, 1937) and Peyote and Plants Confused with It (November, 1937), offer only dubious support for the peyote classification and ethnobotanical use of A. asterias while all future references to the plants enthobotanical use appear to rely on these sources.

Astrophytum capricorne

The oldest known citation of A. capricorne as a peyote species appears to come from Schultes’ 1937 article, Peyote and Plants Confused With It. Schultes cites Britton & Rose’s The Cactaceae as the source, but their work does not regard it as peyote, though they do mention that is grows alongside populations of L. williamsii and Ariocarpus furfuraceus (=A. retusus). Like other Astrophytum species, it is claimed by Schultes to have been “said to be either narcotic or medicinal.”

It seems that all future references to the species as peyote stem from Schultes, but due to the inaccurate bibliographic reference it is likely Schultes mistakenly considered it peyote due to the association with L. williamsii mentioned by Britton & Rose. Further support for a possible mistaken reference to A. capricorne as peyote is that Schultes failed to cite it in a list of peyote species in Peyote and Plants Used in the Peyote Ceremony, an article published just seven months before Peyote and Plants Confused With It, and which also used Britton & Rose as a source. There appears to be absolutely no grounds to consider A. capricorne a peyote.

Astrophytum myriostigma

A. myriostigma appears to have gained its original peyote status following the publication of Victor A. Reko’s Was ist Peyote?, published in a German parapsychology journal in 1929. Unfortunately I have been unable to review Reko’s original writings to examine the context in which it is cited as peyote or if it supports ethnobotanical usage.

Both of Schultes’ 1937 articles regard A. myriostigma as “either narcotic or medicinal.” Bravo’s 1937 publication also makes mention of A. myriostigma as a peyote, but fails to give supportive evidence of ethnobotanical use. Bravo lists this Mexican species under three different geographically based titles, “peyote cimarrón” in Durango, “mitra” in San Luis Potosí, and “Birrete de Obispo” (bishop’s cap) in Coahuila.

zakmalados
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by zakmalados » Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:43 pm

Thanks for that, MSS.

So there you have it, nobody knows.

I'm going to suggest that there must be a reason why nobody has had any success. Probably a dandy ornamental, or something. Or maybe it takes forever to grow any amount worth having, or who knows. I've heard that said about the "sacred" Mammilarias, but I wouldn't really know. Mine for sure grow to slow to ever do anything but admire them.

Zak

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M_S_Smith
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by M_S_Smith » Mon Dec 28, 2009 7:03 pm

You're welcome zakmalados, but I must note that what I say about the genus is more about the bibliographic history and text and less about whether or not it could be psychoactive. The fact is the plants could possibly have contained psychoactive constituents, but just because they might have doesn't mean that they are confirmed as traditional ethnobotanicals, which is in the end my interest as opposed to their contemporary entheogenic use or value.

Regarding the Mammillaria, well they do have much stronger support as traditional ethnobotanicals, both ceremonial and medicinal, but I have some doubts about their degree of psychoactivity.

~Michael~

zakmalados
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Re: Astrophytum myristigma anyone? -

Post by zakmalados » Tue Dec 29, 2009 11:21 am

I'm thinking that lack of a traditional use, together with years of umm ... nothing... probably means we're barking up the wrong tree, here. As a friend of mine once said, absence of evidence is evidence of absence and I think we have a pretty strong case for the "bunk" school of thought, regarding the astrophytums.

I could be way off. It might be one of those magical plants that is only worth picking when it's at least twenty years old, it's winter, and it hasn't rained for a month. And a certain insect pest is ascendant... or whatever.

We may never know. But please, anyone who wants to get the skinny on it, please do. Might I suggest shipping a few samples off to MJB for analysis? He does (I think) a chromatograph analysis of anything he gets, for a reasonable fee.

And yeah, he's a vendor who I shouldn't mention here, but as long as you make sure you don't buy anything from him, no harm done....

LOL - sorry MJB..

Zak

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