Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics

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GhostStar
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Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by GhostStar » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:35 am

like a full blown psychedelic/spiritual type exp.

theres been talk throughout the ages of these types of happenings, from various peoples in various times, and i wonder if these experiences are similar to psychedelic experiences, and if they can actually happen without psychedelics, and just internally.

and please nobody talk about dmt being produced in the pineal gland! :disappointed:

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teeko
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by teeko » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:33 pm

Fuck yes we can.

I guess you do not suffer from any 'mental illness' eh? As that is usually what "they" classify these experiences as.

I was 8 years old the first time I recall my bed lifting off the ground, body being ripped apart cell by cell, folding of vision, overlapping of realities, loss of ego(pretty much how a common dissociative that you put in your leg feels like and Salvia reminds him dearly of these early experiences), the whole shabanga. I have read all kinds of different 'reasoning's' behind these recurring events. Some neat stuff for sure, not that I will get into it here again though. hahaha
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WCH
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by WCH » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:46 pm

Yes, it can happen, but it's rare, and usually only if you're doing some serious spiritual practice, or if the body is in some way under a lot of stress. Fasting is the obvious example, but everything from sleep loss to pain to dizziness can lead to it.

Can also happen spontaneously... but again, rare. Usually some kind of catalyst is necessary, unless you've been doing some major preparation.

For an example of a reliable (but not necessary recommended) procedure that produces visions, look up the knowledge and conversation of the holy guardian angel. Involves months of intense prayer, toward the end of which you pretty much don't do anything but pray. Magic is pretty wild stuff, not to be taken lightly.

Some people see psychedelics in that context as a shortcut... they allow you to get to those "higher states" without having done the work. And that can be dangerous, but it can also reveal to you that these things are possible and may be worth pursuing. Our society makes it very unlikely for us to begin with that belief...

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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by oahspe » Sun Jul 31, 2011 2:10 pm

^^ both good posts.

I'd imagine one could use binaural beats to put oneself in a more meditative state to then have an OOBE, though I have never done this myself.

Also there is the flashing of lights at certain speeds which has been know to produce a "hallucinatory" effect such as is produced (supposedly) by the WSB "Dream Machine":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwA3BWapdK0

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teeko
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by teeko » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:19 pm

Ley lines, electromagnetic Earth grids, etc. are said to have effects like this. Check out the Koren Helmet/Shakti Headbands if you have not seen them.

Look up if there is a vortex in your area and go have a seat for a bit. :)
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by Moonbreeze » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:29 pm

I am not accusing the OP as meaning this, but I have been aware over the years of a conflict between those who embrace psychedelics as a means to experience spiritual experience, and others who will argue that there are 'natural' ways and/or 'when you get the message hang up the phone'.

But I dont get that. I see sacred medicine as just that, a food and elixir.

You could also ask someone if they can get vitamic C without eating oranges...?
Like errrrrr why would you WANT to--there ARE oranges provided by Mother Earth and they are so lovely to eat! Like good food, and good water, you feel good when you eat and drink.

have you heard some people claim you can live off light?? That is the same ilk---they seem to reject nature's bounty.

Of course IF there are no psychedelics avaialbledue to drought or whatever there are other means, but I really dont think they are on same power as psychedelics. But I have had THE most powerful OBE and I wasn't on psychedelics. So life is diverse lol

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Ouroboros
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by Ouroboros » Tue Aug 09, 2011 6:40 pm

Here have this meditation don’t expect anything but things may happen.

Meditation style color therapy “sky blue 15+ minutes for three months”
Visualize and feel with great reverence and honesty your idea of a higher power get as close as possible experiment with different scenarios my favorite is flying up and witnessing and walking closer and closer spend at least 2 or however long you like “this would be considered the tuning in part”

Then visualize the blue sky pouring into you or being showered by a healing blue waterfall
“I liken this to a solar panel absorbing energy”
Let the negative energy escape your body through your feet for the first min
Then just visualize blue and collect energy
Watch you breathing
Witness the any thoughts do not get involved in there story lines
This is done 15+ at the same time of night or day preferably at night in pitch black room. If your legs fall asleep sit on two pillows
Don’t knock it until you tried it for at least a week

peace-

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flickedbic
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by flickedbic » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:21 am

have you heard some people claim you can live off light?? That is the same ilk---they seem to reject nature's bounty.
-moonbreeze
Really? It seems most accepting in my view. By the way, one of the well-known teachers of sun-gazing (H.R.M.) says in his talks that he does not recommend to so live; that it is a means to an end and not the end itself; rather more an example of the power of what can be done; and also that global hunger need not exist... a most powerful affirmation and acceptance of the bountiful blessings in which we find ourselves if it is true, as he claims, that it can be done by anyone.

We know at least he and some other can do it because of scientific review.

H.R.M.'s Pineal gland is also shown to be relatively huge in X-rays... twice the size of "normal" mans (atrophied; attacked on all sides) pineal.

Might I recommend keeping a dream journal and practice and study of "lucid dreaming" and related technologies?

I have had experiences where I've attained lucidity in a dream that have been shattering in their vividness, immensity of scope, and power of expression.
Last edited by flickedbic on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
All readable matter in the above post is ficticious.

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Rising Spirit
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by Rising Spirit » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Nice thread,

Yes, we can experience levels of expanded consciousness and universal awareness without the aid of entheogens. No, it does not produce the same degree of "hallucination" or fractal visual patterns as psychedelics do. Gotta be totally honest and give credit where credit is due... Sacred Medicines do show us things which are quite extraordinary. :flash:

Let's be fair with the basic premise of this concept, shall we? The journey of the shaman is one which rockets the subjective witness from "normal consciousness" to another state of mind altogether, one of an "altered consciousness". this occurs within a handful of hours, so this is most unique, spiritually speaking.

In the process of daily meditation, on the other hand, is like gradually saturating a piece of cloth in dye. With consistent practice, this creates an attunement which expands one's awareness to the present moment. Now is all that exists, despite our mental obsession with the past and the future.

The "straight" path take a continuum and requires regularity and in some cases, extreme training. The narrow way, we gradually access levels of vibrational harmony, that slowly attune us to subtler and still subtler frequencies of mind. As we merge with our mediation, we become a n echo and a reflection of this current of thought.

The wide open way, which can be sen as the immediate way... can be both, dangerous to one's sanity (if one has a fragility in this area) and is sacrilegious frivolous with it's lack of definitive intent. In other words, without a purpose, the results are relative to the mind which embraces the chemical immersion.

I personally feel that entheogens are our spiritual allies. These allies help us to suddenly and most dramatically, embrace a shift which facilitates ego-shattering experiences. When we embrace the use of psychedelic plants or extracts, we cross into a dramatic departure from the realm of normal reality. :supernova:

I suggest a fusion of the two methods. If one chooses one over the other... that's just fine but I earnestly advice any serious psychonaut to add both, sitting and moving meditation into their daily routine.

That being said, it take extreme measures in sitting meditation and sensory deprivation to access levels of awareness which Sacred Medicines can gift. Long hours sitting in deep meditation, fasting, flotation tanks or other consciousness shifting devices... all shake us out of our mental fixations. Still, I have yet to encounter anything as profound, nor as powerful as entheogens. In conjunction with spiritual sadhana like: meditation, contemplation, concentration and visualization training... the Sacred Medicines can facilitate greater understanding about who we are and what we are called to perceive, to awaken to the knowledge of.

Ultimately, truth is truth and realization is a game of endless opening. If we set aside the notion that we can have this or that direct experience by following this or that pathway... we might use the unity in all approaches.

In the end... all is one and the Spirit is all that we need to focus upon. This is a contradiction in conceptual terms, since the spiritual essence is unlike everything else in our relative experience, as is it a continuity and interlocking current which unites the subjective perception of the individual with the expanded perspective of Universal Being. :thumb:



Peace, light & love
Last edited by Rising Spirit on Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Can One have a Psychedelic/Spiritual Exp without Psychedelics -

Post by Flapjack » Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:13 am

I've had some supernatural experiences through dreams that leak over into the 'real' world and also through states inbetween sleep and awake induced naturally although not intentionally.

these experiences for me are different than psychedelics, I would call them supernatural instead of psychedelic or spiritual.

They've let me see that life is magical and a lot of what happenes to you and things that you see are not just hallucinations.

these experiences are a bit more unsettling for me and usually are like dysphoric

I'm really just talking about having dreams like 4 times a night, a lot of creepy stuff happenes to you, I mean A LOT of really weird shit if you can remember.

I think most would prefer not remembering, like seeing your mother limbless hung from a noose swaying back and forth dripping with blood under a strobe light trying to conduct casual conversation with you about gardening while so wtf?!?!?

i've had a few dreams though where information was relayed to me, future events were foreseen, dead ones were revisited, intense bodily sensations occured, outerbody experiences were had and so forth, most of the time it is just weird and scarey though.
Last edited by Flapjack on Fri Aug 12, 2011 6:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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