magick versus empathy

Here is the place to discuss philosophy, religion, and spirituality.
Post Reply
Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

magick versus empathy -

Post by Moonbreeze » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:30 am

yesterday I finsihed a book I only got recent, and couldn't put it down, called Prophet of Evil: Aleister Crowley, 9/11, and the New World Order, by William Ramsey

To summarize it: As you recall, the numbers most prominent in the 9/11 atrocity were 11, 77, 93, and 175 --the flight numbers. Well this book reveals that these very same numbers feature prominently in Crowley's magick system and practice!
And you learn that his philosophy 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the law' (notice it is 11 words) is not disimilar to Hitler's sick philosophy of Will to Power, and in fact it is said Hitler was inspired from Crowley's The Book of the Law--which Crowley claims was dictated to him by an entity he calls Aiwaz (his name numerologically gives 93) who he also says is the Devil or Lucifer.

Crowley is a truly awful character. he was brought up by Christian fundamentalists who fucked his head up, and he also was sent to a school which alternated sadistic punishment with enforced biblical indoctrination--so all this abuse caused Crowley to associate gentlesness and compassion with Christianity--which obviously had not given him that-- start a religion which embraced its nemesis, the Devil, hatred for the 'weak', and excess.

Most people that came into contact with him, including his partners suffered one way or the others--he was a sado masochistic pervert who liked being shit and pissed on and eating it all, and this he made into magick rituals (was him who put the k on magick--k is the 11th letter)

He disrespected women, was sadistic to them, and and beat them.

He would cut himself so as to focus his will--master himself. In the book it shows one of his disciples (who he abused), Victor Neuberg's arms, where he has likewise cut himself, and they look terrible. Covered in scars!

Crowley also admitted that his New Aon (the New Age/New World Order) is meant to be the aristocracy crushing the weak.
Yet in the psychedelic movement we have its leaders like Timothy Leary, and Robert Anton Wilson LOVING Crowley, and disseminating his foul ideas. Leary actually thought he was Crowley born again and it was his duty to turn on all the youth to his Law of Do what you wilt etc, and you know Crowley influenced a whole lot of music and art.

So I am seeing this this infiltration of the psychedelic movement by the elite

Timothy Leary: I carried on Aleister Crowley's work


ALEISTER CROWLEY AND MUSIC http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4emMFyvSWI#2m50s

“In 1971 Timothy Leary had an epiphany during a Tarot reading that utilized a set of cards designed by Crowley. His revelation? That he was “…Crowley Reborn, and [was] to complete the work Crowley began, preparing humanity for cosmic consciousness”” Cosmic Trigger, R.A.Wilson, 1977, page 116

I am now understanding even more deeply than before that magic is the antipathy of empathy, because the former is about will, and INCREASING the sense of ego which they will call 'godhood' as Crowley deludedly did, and for real empathy you have to yield your will, and not impose it, so that your feeling can understand another's feeling

Thoughts?

User avatar
teeko
Posts: 6540
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:00 am
Location: Treasure Coast Florida

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by teeko » Sun Jul 31, 2011 1:29 pm

Many thoughts. But I will share only these for now.

Numerology is a real crock of shit. lol
I do not believe it has any relevance to anything other than whatever the person writing or deciphering it has put into it. Any number can be added/subtracted/multiplied and divided by any other number to get yet again any other number that you so choose to find. Kind of like that movie...

"As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician, you're a numerologist. "
-Sol Robeson

He openly talks against blood rites and things like that. Yes, he does punish himself with a razor to the skin for focus. But what about all them monks burning themselves with boiling water and steel pots? And just about every other 'discipline' where "whatever does not kill you will make you stronger". Its not new, its not evil and it sure isn't magick.

I get what your saying though and agree about imposing will. However...if he was raised in a supposedly "good Christian environ" and wanted to go against this 'good Christian raising'- then is he not GOOD himself? As we all know Christianity is the closest to being "evil" as we got.

Not that I believe in 'good or evil', which I do not.

I just see it as yet another case of someone doing what they think is right in retrospect to what this someone has already experienced. A bit'o confusion here and there and seemingly lots of booze, cocaine and mescaline. Not sure that combination is very enlightening...still, Crowley has some interesting work - nothing to change your Ethos over though. hahaha

"Only a fool dabbles in magick"
-TR

moonbreeze, what do you think about these?

Torah/Kabbalah/Hermetic Qabalah?

Sephirot/Metatron/Baphomet?

Goathead/Godhood/Godhead?

Moses/Obama? (lol)
thisisnotanimage

All lies contain truth.

All truths are circumstantial.

Khnum93
Posts: 257
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 11:16 am

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by Khnum93 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 11:12 pm

I love Crowley because some of his philosophy I agree with. I can't buy all of it. Sacrifices of any kind involving a form of life I disagree with. When he says "Do what thou willt", to me it's another way of saying follow your dream/create your own reality. I feel one has to wade through his writings to get some nuggets. ...You know isn't life all about taking what works for you and disregarding the rest. His personal life does make for an interesting read.....one of my most favorite producers of music is Phil Spector. From what I read he was a control freak with women. Now he is in prison for the death of his last girlfriend, but should that deter me from liking/appreciating his contributions to pop music. For me, no...Crowley may have been a sexual pig and misogynist but that was his life not mine.

"Imposing will", that is taking a while for me to really chew on that concept from where you are coming from Moonbreeze. You have a valid point. And at the same time Crowley would probably say that is weak and too bad. Do you want to win or don't you?

Moonbreeze and Teeko thnx for sharing, I enjoy your commentaries

93 / 93

Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by Moonbreeze » Mon Aug 01, 2011 11:12 am

@ teeko
Numerology is a real crock of shit. lol
I do not believe it has any relevance to anything other than whatever the person writing or deciphering it has put into it. Any number can be added/subtracted/multiplied and divided by any other number to get yet again any other number that you so choose to find. Kind of like that movie...

"As soon as you discard scientific rigor, you're no longer a mathematician, you're a numerologist. "
-Sol Robeson
If so why does Crowley give number so much occult significance? Why would Wescott W.Wynn devote a book to gematria titled: Numbers: Their Occult Power and Mystic Virtue IF numerology is a crock of shit?
In Crowley's The Book of the Law 1:60: "My number is 11, as all their numbers who are one of us"..."the Age of Horus is arisen by the Magick of of the Master of the Beast that is Man, and his number is 666"
He openly talks against blood rites and things like that. Yes, he does punish himself with a razor to the skin for focus. But what about all them monks burning themselves with boiling water and steel pots? And just about every other 'discipline' where "whatever does not kill you will make you stronger". Its not new, its not evil and it sure isn't magick.
Oh Teeko, I dont know where you are getting your info from at all. He very much did sacrfice animals, and encourage the sacrifice of humans. In chapter 12 of his Book of the Law "he discusses the sacrifice of animals and humans in detail. He also refers to the sacrifice necessary for the ultimate spiritual operation:" [ibid] he tells how to kill animals within the magick circle and that the ultimate sacrifice is a young boy!

I get what your saying though and agree about imposing will. However...if he was raised in a supposedly "good Christian environ" and wanted to go against this 'good Christian raising'- then is he not GOOD himself? As we all know Christianity is the closest to being "evil" as we got.

Not that I believe in 'good or evil', which I do not.

I just see it as yet another case of someone doing what they think is right in retrospect to what this someone has already experienced. A bit'o confusion here and there and seemingly lots of booze, cocaine and mescaline. Not sure that combination is very enlightening...still, Crowley has some interesting work - nothing to change your Ethos over though. hahaha
I am sorry teeko but all you say there seems to me very confused...?

Why should I respect such a horrible damaged character. I might as well see the 'good side' in a serial killer!!
I do think that christianity has a LOT to answer for. The author of the book I mention does mention his terrible unbringing by Christian fundies, but doesn't seem to make connection how that belief system CAUSES very damaged people like Crowley--which it does.
I see Crowley and people who embrace ugliness and self destruction and are repulsed by sensitivity, and compassion as very sad people. They have associated empathy with a belief system, and/or experience that has hurt them for being contradictory---like the 'god of love' religion seriously fukin them up--but instead of really exploring THAT belief system with its invention of the devil, many stick in the SAME worldview and become or follow their image of the 'opposite' of love and tenderness. Know what I mean? They distrust all that and think it 'weak'.

Moonbreeze
Posts: 1060
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 12:56 pm

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by Moonbreeze » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:24 pm

Khnum93 wrote:I love Crowley because some of his philosophy I agree with. I can't buy all of it. Sacrifices of any kind involving a form of life I disagree with. When he says "Do what thou willt", to me it's another way of saying follow your dream/create your own reality. I feel one has to wade through his writings to get some nuggets. ...You know isn't life all about taking what works for you and disregarding the rest. His personal life does make for an interesting read.....one of my most favorite producers of music is Phil Spector. From what I read he was a control freak with women. Now he is in prison for the death of his last girlfriend, but should that deter me from liking/appreciating his contributions to pop music. For me, no...Crowley may have been a sexual pig and misogynist but that was his life not mine.

"Imposing will", that is taking a while for me to really chew on that concept from where you are coming from Moonbreeze. You have a valid point. And at the same time Crowley would probably say that is weak and too bad. Do you want to win or don't you?

Moonbreeze and Teeko thnx for sharing, I enjoy your commentaries

93 / 93
I just know how you could love such a vile man like him? His 'do what thou wilt' admonition is utterly selfsih and I am sure the 'person'/corporations follow his hideous religion as they continue to pollute and destroy Mother Earth!

Music? Crowley has influenced a lot of musicians also who preach his shit--i linked this thread to an example in OP. No--it is like a disease that continues to infect generations. Like Descartes' disease. MILLIONS of animals suffer every day because of that fukers ideas, yet philosophers will argue how his ideas were needed. They WEREN'T needed by me, or the animals suffering terribly in the name of them.

User avatar
minderbinder
Posts: 1072
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by minderbinder » Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:33 pm

i think i don't want to interfere seriously in this discussion, too (not to sound like a parrot: discussions on things like this are endless, most of the time, i already had enough of them and i'm not the keeper of the last wisdom:) (hee hee, or am i? ... hidden raising of the magnum p.i. brow ... no, probably i'm not), just one point:
If so why does Crowley give number so much occult significance?
Since from the middle ages every magician, hermetic and what else to name, did - it's just the way things evolved, lastest since what is commonly known as Kabballa showed up first written down somewhere in the middle ages (read: i say written down, i don't want to argue on the age of it, that's really beyond any of my knowledge :)) - probably every western magic system from the renaissance upwards is somehow mingeled with it to some degree ...
Last edited by minderbinder on Mon Aug 01, 2011 12:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Avoidance of pictures from parrots
Bhagwan told me not to worry. If i do it'll make me sorry. Alright.

User avatar
teeko
Posts: 6540
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:00 am
Location: Treasure Coast Florida

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by teeko » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:01 pm

Sorry I mixed people up.

Although not sure how far this is from Crowley, but I was thinking of the last Eliphas Levi book I read...not Crowley.

Now that I have spent a couple hours since yesterday going through my Crowley books, yeah, hes pretty fucked up. hahaha Still has some interesting things - although I am far less interested now. Actually, over the last six months or so I have become less and less interested in things like Thelema, Crowley, Regardie, Enochian gibberish, etc. etc. Which is odd, as I have always since a very young child been into this kinda thing. Maybe I learned that some of these people are sicker than I thought! haha Lately I have been more interested in the Vedic texts, Tashira Tachi-ren, lightbody stuff, ascension, Christ without the IAN, psionics, radionics and other personal growth and self improvement type weirdness. Even reading on psionics you come across a LOT of nutjobs who only care about mind control and manipulation of people. Not many who are interested in thing like post-death, after-life, alternate realities/universes, etc. etc.

What about Crowley's Enochian Calls works? Is not that language believed to be holy and of the Angels? Or is that double blasphemy because hes using a holy language to do nasty shit with?

Numerology is still nonsense. Why would a lying mason like Wynn write a book about it? Why would Crowley put some much faith into it? Why do you put some much faith into it when the examples you gave are of your 'enemies' so to speak?

Do what thou wilt.

If your momma told you, when your in school, to 'do what thou wilt to succeed', would she be telling you to sacrifice animals and cut yourself? Or would she be telling you to do what it takes to get the job done? Its how YOU/ME/WE the reader(s) interpret it. 666 represents undecided, nothing more nothing less. A person given the #666(most of us) has not made the life decision to work for Positive or for Negative, they are undecided. There is no good or evil, those are man-made concepts.

Levi mentions a sacrifice of a Kid...which he then goes into detail about he feels sick even writing about it and refuses to share the ritual saying that 'no man should accrue this knowledge' and then discusses how awful it is to do such things. The Kid he is referring to is a goat, not an African male child like Crowley seemed to think. Crowley only wished he was Levi. And Leary was so fried who gives a shit what he thought. Anyone who backs out of their life work on their death bed can suck a donkey turd.

But what about magick versus empathy? I am unsure of the relation. Do you mean because it seems most of these "magickians" lack empathy? I would think that the greater sorcerer would hold more empathy. But that may be a debate about something else entirely. I am 'fine' with magick. I am not opposed - but I DO see how things like the 'bible' say to avoid it - unless you can differentiate between positive and negative and have the will to control yourself. lol

You can't love a serial killer? What about unyielding love regardless of actions? Is not love what you preach? I feel ya and all, but if you can't love your enemy then ya gotta problemo.

What about the connections below moonbreeze?

Torah/Bible

Kabbalah/Hermetic Qabalah?

Sephirot/Metatron/Baphomet?

Goathead/Godhood/Godhead?

Image
thisisnotanimage

All lies contain truth.

All truths are circumstantial.

User avatar
SalvinorinAlpha
Posts: 256
Joined: Fri May 27, 2011 7:00 pm
Location: Canada

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by SalvinorinAlpha » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:11 pm

moonbreeze wrote:I am now understanding even more deeply than before that magic is the antipathy of empathy, because the former is about will, and INCREASING the sense of ego which they will call 'godhood' as Crowley deludedly did, and for real empathy you have to yield your will, and not impose it, so that your feeling can understand another's feeling

Thoughts?
I think magic(k) begins with empathy. Or at least it should. It's not all about imposing your will. At least I don't see it that way. For me, it's about understanding someone's feelings and doing what you can to help them. I would include myself in this. Listening to and understanding my own feelings, and then attempting to heal and accept.

I will agree with the comment about increasing the ego, or sense of personal power. That it can do. And just like fame or any sense of power, you can let it go to your head or you can choose to stay humble. :)

User avatar
minderbinder
Posts: 1072
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 2:18 pm

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by minderbinder » Mon Aug 01, 2011 3:44 pm

i'd just like to find something that finally works. besides slipping glasses over desks and stuff.
Bhagwan told me not to worry. If i do it'll make me sorry. Alright.

User avatar
teeko
Posts: 6540
Joined: Wed Oct 12, 2011 11:00 am
Location: Treasure Coast Florida

Re: magick versus empathy -

Post by teeko » Tue Aug 02, 2011 1:42 pm

minderbinder wrote:i'd just like to find something that finally works. besides slipping glasses over desks and stuff.
That mindset is how it starts. You want more. lol

Then when you find how easy more is to acquire via the negative path many people do not think about that. They just run with it because its amazing and powerful and beyond their previous comprehension. I moderated for a while at one of the webs largest and oldest magick/metaphysical forums. I noticed many people with good intentions lost them very quickly when they took the time to start experimenting and started getting results. They just wanted more more more, more power.

Discipline. Diet. Exercise. Prayer/meditation/engramming. Education.
Will get you much farther than cutting yourself and sitting in a dark room lighting goat shaped candles all night.

Maybe it was the mystery that intrigued me so. Now that much of that mystery has been revealed the interest is fading. I got to be an stand in at some very weird stuff before. That pretty much made the decision that ritualistic magick is not for me. (nothing creepy, all nice people, but it was just not my thing) I will light some candles in my meditation room, low frequencies blasting, chimes chiming, gongs gonging. But not much weirder than that. hahaha
thisisnotanimage

All lies contain truth.

All truths are circumstantial.

Post Reply