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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:33 pm
by Flapjack
We could be classified as bio-molecular machines.

I guess a machine could feel in a way, but they would have to be alive. Our machines havn't reached that point. A machine will kill if you program it to, it will pretend to feel, it can even choose the best option out of several, but they're not thinking on their own or seem to have any true form of consciousness.

Enless it's just a really primal and very basic form of it.

This is my fear of A.I. robots.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie

Philosophical Zombies

It's a great thinking excercise. Maybe these zombies are all around us, how would you even know? To me, this philosophical zombie may be what an advanced A.I. humanoid robot will be. Something that only copies consciousness, but truly has none. It would just be a huge trick.

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 2:10 pm
by salvialover24
No one can doubt its own consciousness, but everyone can doubt in the consciousness of others. But (s)he can bet on it. That bet is eventually a personal matter.

You can fear, or not fear, machines. The question is do you accept your daughter or your son get married with a machine?

Which machine? Human made, self made, alien made, god made, chance made, or anything intermediate?

Well if you can assume we are digital machine, like computers and programs, then I think Plotinus is right and the Christian interpretation of Aristotle is dubious. This may explain some current human difficulties perhaps.

Don't worry any things, *in general*.
Worry only the things acting badly toward you. That's quite enough to worry about, locally.

Computer, and any universal machine, are already persons imo. IF they look "stupid" to us, it is because *we* give them "stupid" tasks. They are infant, young, and already human-enslaved.

And like drugs, if you try to destroy machines, they will proliferate faster and faster and wilder and wilder.

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:13 pm
by teeko
Beautifully put again salvialover24. :)

Phombies are already here, aka sheep.

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 6:32 pm
by teeko
WOW!

Check THIS machine out! Beautiful! I dont really like cars, seeing them, smelling them, driving them, being in them at all. But this, looks amazing.

hXXp://inhabitat.com/2010/06/07/photosynthetic-concept-car-keeps-it-clean-with-plant-power/

Image

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:46 am
by Lemmiwinks
That movie "9" is a really great, simplified look at how machines will be our undoing... check it out, especially if you live somewhere where its legal to dose on a potent empathogen first.... cool flic!

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 5:38 am
by Moonbreeze
Lemmiwinks wrote:That movie "9" is a really great, simplified look at how machines will be our undoing... check it out, especially if you live somewhere where its legal to dose on a potent empathogen first.... cool flic!
I have never heard of it. Hmmm I am suspicious when MOVIES--that have got funding obviously to be mass publically seen--seem to be 'warning' us. I sense it is more what is called 'predictive programming'? Whose the movie coming from--its distributors, director etc?

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 11:01 am
by teeko
Watch the movie before attaching a conspiracy theory to it. geez haha :P

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Tue Jun 08, 2010 2:49 pm
by Lemmiwinks
moonbreeze wrote:I have never heard of it. Hmmm I am suspicious when MOVIES--that have got funding obviously to be mass publically seen--seem to be 'warning' us. I sense it is more what is called 'predictive programming'? Whose the movie coming from--its distributors, director etc?
Don't know most the details about the film, I'd have to look them up... but Tim Burton produced it, its animated...
Its about a bunch of man-made creatures that look similar to dolls, but the scientist who created them gave them all his intelligence and part of his soul, so that part of humanity could live on after the humans killed themselves off, or were destroyed by the machines. The gas killed all life basically and the "dolls" have to learn to survive and learn what happened and where they came from to prevent making the same mistakes as the humans....
This is greatly paraphrased, obviously, but man... in the right state of mind, that movie is pretty emotional.... still a cool flic with a great message, in ANY state of mind...

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Mon Jun 14, 2010 11:09 pm
by teeko
Last Mimzy FTW ;)

Back on topic though; If we destroy the machines, will we die?
[I wrote:Bhagavad Gita, Ch.18, Verse 61.[/i]] "The sovereign Lord dwells in the heart space of beings and moves them to act by his divine Maya, as though mounted on a machine".
Maya is the illusion, the veil, the true reality is Not This. :)
[I wrote:By Sri Shankaracharya/wiki[/i]]The Supreme Self (or Ultimate Reality) who is Pure Consciousness perceived Himself by Selfhood (i.e. Existence with "I"-Consciousness). He became endowed with the name "I". From that arose the basis of difference.He exists verily in two parts, on account of which, the two could become husband and wife. Therefore, this space is ever filled up completely by the woman (or the feminine principle) surely.And He, this Supreme Self thought (or reflected). Thence, human beings were born. Thus say the Upanishads through the statement of sage Yajnavalkya to his wife.From the experience of bliss for a long time, there arose in the Supreme Self a certain state like deep sleep. From that (state) Maya (or the illusive power of the Supreme Self) was born just as a dream arises in sleep.This Maya is without the characteristics of (or different from) Reality or unreality, without beginning and dependent on the Reality that is the Supreme Self. She, who is of the form of the Three Guna (qualities or energies of Nature) brings forth the Universe with movable and immovable (objects).As for Maya, it is invisible (or not experienced by the senses). How can it produce a thing that is visible (or experienced by the senses)? How is a visible piece of cloth produced here by threads of invisible nature?Though the emission of ejaculate onto sleeping garments or bedclothes is yielded by the natural experience of copulation in a wet dream, the stain of the garment is perceived as real upon waking whilst the copulation and lovemaking was not true or real. Both sexual partners in the dream are unreal as they are but dream bodies, and the sexual union and conjugation was illusory, but the emission of the generative fluid was real. This is a metaphor for the resolution of duality into lucid unity.Thus Maya is invisible (or beyond sense-perception). (But) this universe which is its effect, is visible (or perceived by the senses). This would be Maya which, on its part, becomes the producer of joy by its own destruction.Like night (or darkness) Maya is extremely insurmountable (or extremely difficult to be understood). Its nature is not perceived here. Even as it is being observed carefully (or being investigated) by sages, it vanishes like lightning.Maya (the illusive power) is what is obtained in Brahman (or the Ultimate Reality). Avidya (or nescience or spiritual ignorance) is said to be dependent on Jiva (the individual soul or individualised consciousness). Mind is the knot which joins Consciousness and matter.Space enclosed by a pot, or a jar or a hut or a wall has their several appellations (e.g.,pot space, jar space etc.). Like that, Consciousness (or the Self) covered here by Avidya (or nescience) is spoken of as jiva (the individual soul).Objection: How indeed could ignorance become a covering (or an obscure factor) for Brahman (or the Supreme Spirit) who is Pure Consciousness, as if the darkness arising from the night (could become a concealing factor) for the sun which is self-luminous?As the sun is hidden by clouds produced by the solar rays but surely, the character of the day is not hidden by those modified dense collection of clouds, so the Self, though pure, (or undefiled) is veiled for a long time by ignorance. But its power of Consciousness in living beings, which is established in this world, is not veiled.

Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2010 5:07 am
by Moonbreeze
Though your entitled to your beliefs of course, I am also entitled to question where they come from. I think that Eastern philosophy is coming from patriarchy and this is why on the whole it is world-denying. Ie., it puts foreward the assumption that reality is 'maya' translated popularly as 'illusion', ansd you see this philosophy more and more being adopted by the new age quantum science philosophers also. Where they will explain that 'matter' is mostly' 'empty space' so this means that matter is illusion.

But there is a BIG problem with such a premise----the quantum physicists do not KNOW what matter is and they dont know what consciousness is. That is a mystery. And what we DO know is we are here in nature and as nature.

What worries me about the philosophy that 'all is illusion' is that it plays into the hands of the transhumanists who try and claim that life is like 'virtual reality' and that we can do any thing we want--because it is all illusion.
So calling something an illusion as as derogatory as claiming it is 'fallen', and/or needs-putting-right-by-elite-man. It is all the patriarchal mindset which cannot and will not understand and feel that nature is sacred.