We Must Destroy The Machines!!!

Here is the place to discuss philosophy, religion, and spirituality.
lifeinallday
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by lifeinallday » Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:16 am

Flapjack wrote:but I guess I cant force people to make that realization. My efforts do so isnt really worth a damn.
You seem like a really cool kid. Honestly I have felt that way before too. Ive gotten to realize that trying to get others to understand this type of stuff takes me away from my true self; as well as being pointless. Just to know that i am a weed and not a rose is really all I need. Some of us will always be trying to be a rose, to improve ourselves in some sort of way, and no amount of self acceptance will stop this. Its time to stop the search for enlightenment or our true selves and to just be here NOW with a positive mindset and attitude. Love will grow from the individual acceptance; and things will work themselves out in time, lets not try to jump the gun whatevers coming is coming. Do not push away untruth, its already untrue:thumbs: ANd I can see you do know were the heart is : )
Last edited by lifeinallday on Wed Jan 21, 2009 1:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

Flapjack
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by Flapjack » Wed Jan 21, 2009 4:17 am

I gotcha, but it is fun to talk about from time to time.

lifeinallday
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by lifeinallday » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:22 am

Flapjack wrote:I gotcha, but it is fun to talk about from time to time.
Of course it is, I love eastern philosophy and buddhism, and noone is perfect I do my fair shair of rambaling; but I must know not to obsess about the past (and to not beat myself up over it) because it is ALWAYS NOW, even in the past when I experienced it, it was experienced as the present moment. But the more I read about buddhism I find it is telling me not to follow it but to be it and do it for myself (to not look outside of myself for answer or the way). What is the purpose of going to a Doctor? So you dont need him later on in life, : )

sandseastars
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by sandseastars » Wed Jan 21, 2009 11:50 am

lifeinallday wrote:wrong, once again everything you have to say is negative (your getting caught up in wishful thinking). Start being a positive person (of what is) and everything will work itself out.
Tell that to:

- people living near chemical plants who are forced to breathe dirty air and drink the foul water, all so we can have sparkly, germ-free homes decorated in the latest HGTV fashions, and cool electronic gadgets, etc (think "Union Carbide"),

- indigenous peoples whose land (on which they lived sustainably for thousands of years) is being stolen by international corporations backed by US installed dictators and US trained mercenary armies,

- whales whose brains bleed out when their highly sensitive eardrums are assaulted by sonar signals sent out by the wargames of the US Navy,

- salmon and shad who can't make it upstream to mate because of dams,

- all the species that are driven to extinction every day, and centuries-old trees that are cut down as the rainforests, ALL forests, are converted to plantations and pastures, plywood and paper,

- Iraqi mothers whose children are caught in the crossfire of industrial civilizations greed for oil,

- the majority of the world's women, who are treated as second-class citizens or worse,

- livestock and poulty living in deplorable conditions on factory farms,

- all victims of rape, torture, and political imprisonment who are ignored by those who would rather not look,

- etc etc etc...ad nauseam.

If you want to live in ignorance/denial, that is fine. I can totally sympathize and sometimes have to hide myself in denial and altered states of mind in order to not end up in the fetal position sucking my thumb. But please, don't tell those of us who recognize industrial civilization for exactly what it is (a death culture) that we are wrong or that our frustration is pointless.

As much as it hurts and completely overwhelms me, I am glad I took the red pill and know the Truth. I have accepted that I will be grieving and frustrated (when looking at the big picture - which is often) until the day that I die. This is not pointless - if my actions help to save a patch of trees or a stream, and their inhabitants, well maybe they will still be around to carry on when this shit system finally falls.

And also, I will not get into a debate about lifestyle. Yes, I'm sitting here on a computer, a tool of civilization, in house powered by electricity, and I own a stupid fucking car. I am reworking my life in increments and do harbor guilt about changes I have yet to make. I could tell you how I don't eat factory farmed meat and try to eat locally, or how I only buy/salvage material goods and machines that are used or thrown away. Or how in this country I am not allowed to completely turn my back on the system due to the absurd notion of private property and other big brother control tactics. Or how being raised in this culture robbed me of the necessary knowledge and skills to survive in balance with my landbase. Or how those who do find the courage to defend the earth and take direct action against "property" are labeled as terrorists (green IS the new red) and end up with prison sentences that are often longer than those for rapists and murderers.

But you could still find a myriad of ways I'm still dependent on, or derive entertainment from, the products of industrial civilization. I've come to realize that my (or anyone's) lifestyle changes are but a molecule in the bucket and won't make a difference. What may make a difference is my loving and therefore defending what little of the natural world remains. We're slaves in the system until it crashes. And I have no problem using the man's tools to bring down his house - or for now, simply exposing his house for the prison that it is.

And, I do work hard to not let this culture completely rob me of joy - being outside, being in true relationship with people and other beings, these bring me joy.

"Life is really good, and we are so fucked." - Derrick Jensen

Flapjack
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by Flapjack » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:56 pm

I think the industrial revolution was the worst thing that has ever happened. Thats alittle strange that you bring up terrorists... I hadnt thought of that. People who rebel against the system could be thought as terrorists. Thats fucked up.

Yeah, but theres not much you can do about it. If anyone knows of a solution I would be glad to hear it. Im thinkin about becoming homeless. Not perminently, but just going outside and becoming a wanderer for about a week. See what thats like. That would be living out of western society in western society. Should be a very strange experience. Have to move to a city first...

lifeinallday
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by lifeinallday » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:16 am

sandseastars wrote:Tell that to:

- people living near chemical plants who are forced to breathe dirty air and drink the foul water, all so we can have sparkly, germ-free homes decorated in the latest HGTV fashions, and cool electronic gadgets, etc (think "Union Carbide"),

- indigenous peoples whose land (on which they lived sustainably for thousands of years) is being stolen by international corporations backed by US installed dictators and US trained mercenary armies,

- whales whose brains bleed out when their highly sensitive eardrums are assaulted by sonar signals sent out by the wargames of the US Navy,

- salmon and shad who can't make it upstream to mate because of dams,

- all the species that are driven to extinction every day, and centuries-old trees that are cut down as the rainforests, ALL forests, are converted to plantations and pastures, plywood and paper,

- Iraqi mothers whose children are caught in the crossfire of industrial civilizations greed for oil,

- the majority of the world's women, who are treated as second-class citizens or worse,

- livestock and poulty living in deplorable conditions on factory farms,

- all victims of rape, torture, and political imprisonment who are ignored by those who would rather not look,

- etc etc etc...ad nauseam.

If you want to live in ignorance/denial, that is fine. I can totally sympathize and sometimes have to hide myself in denial and altered states of mind in order to not end up in the fetal position sucking my thumb. But please, don't tell those of us who recognize industrial civilization for exactly what it is (a death culture) that we are wrong or that our frustration is pointless.

As much as it hurts and completely overwhelms me, I am glad I took the red pill and know the Truth. I have accepted that I will be grieving and frustrated (when looking at the big picture - which is often) until the day that I die. This is not pointless - if my actions help to save a patch of trees or a stream, and their inhabitants, well maybe they will still be around to carry on when this shit system finally falls.

And also, I will not get into a debate about lifestyle. Yes, I'm sitting here on a computer, a tool of civilization, in house powered by electricity, and I own a stupid fucking car. I am reworking my life in increments and do harbor guilt about changes I have yet to make. I could tell you how I don't eat factory farmed meat and try to eat locally, or how I only buy/salvage material goods and machines that are used or thrown away. Or how in this country I am not allowed to completely turn my back on the system due to the absurd notion of private property and other big brother control tactics. Or how being raised in this culture robbed me of the necessary knowledge and skills to survive in balance with my landbase. Or how those who do find the courage to defend the earth and take direct action against "property" are labeled as terrorists (green IS the new red) and end up with prison sentences that are often longer than those for rapists and murderers.

But you could still find a myriad of ways I'm still dependent on, or derive entertainment from, the products of industrial civilization. I've come to realize that my (or anyone's) lifestyle changes are but a molecule in the bucket and won't make a difference. What may make a difference is my loving and therefore defending what little of the natural world remains. We're slaves in the system until it crashes. And I have no problem using the man's tools to bring down his house - or for now, simply exposing his house for the prison that it is.

And, I do work hard to not let this culture completely rob me of joy - being outside, being in true relationship with people and other beings, these bring me joy.

"Life is really good, and we are so fucked." - Derrick Jensen
For the record you invited your self into this debate (if thats what you want to call it).
And living things ARE living in a death culture (as well as a life culture) , thats the only thing we were ever promised when we were given life was death,why does this seam to come as a horrible surprise to you? We must (or dont if you dont want to thats fine) learn to not fear death. But it is not my job to say anything to these people! I have nothing to say, I can't relieve them of their pain. Is all I can do is send love, and help when i can. And I have helped, ive been going on mission trips for the past 5 years now. Mother teresa once said... "I will not join an anti war rally, But I will join a peace rally". Im just saying the mind is a powerful tool and it can be used in manny different ways, some ways can be more positive than others; Both for yourself and others. And somewere in there a off button lies. But I didnt say anything mean to begin with so please stop trying me.
Last edited by lifeinallday on Thu Jan 22, 2009 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

lifeinallday
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by lifeinallday » Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:40 am

CactusFlesh wrote:Very true sandseastars. I don't see how we can maintain this level of waste without the obvious implosion down the road.
And were exactly did you get the idea that there 'WONT be a implosion down the road'?
Last edited by lifeinallday on Thu Jan 22, 2009 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

Flapjack
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by Flapjack » Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:25 am

AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! YES!!!

This was my first post... 2 years ago. It should be known that I was brain washed by the ancient flower of life. Fuck You Drunvalo!!!

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salvialover24
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by salvialover24 » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:06 pm

Flapjack wrote:AHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! YES!!!

This was my first post... 2 years ago. It should be known that I was brain washed by the ancient flower of life. Fuck You Drunvalo!!!
Thanks for saying. I guess you are cured of your idea of destroying machine. The very idea of destroying is usually not so constructive, OK?

I am used to say that the difference between artificial and natural is ... artificial. And thus natural, by species which develop relative ego. And the ego is not the problem. Egoism is a Godsend, it makes you able to appreciate things. It is egocentricity which may be a problem, when one ego develops too much in expense of other ego, be it dinosaurs, human or machine. It is the super-ego which hides the super-self (in Hekura sense).

I follow you completely when you say
Flapjack wrote:The point is not to have one or the other(feminine/masculine), but a balance of both. You need the mind and the heart to be equal as one within yourself. If it is not equal a polarity will form. The mind will contradict and question the heart and the heart will be suppressed because of that. The point is to use the mind to assist the heart and the heart to assist the mind. They are both very important.
The mind cannot be equated with the heart, but you can bring peace in yourself by allowing good two-way bridges between them.

About this:
Flapjack wrote:THIS IS YOUR FUTURE!!!
Image
LOOK AT IT!!!
It may help you, or not, to think that this could already be our past, and our present too. So, there is nothing to really worry about that.
Flapjack wrote: When intelligence dominates compassion there will always be suffering.
I guess I would have said: 'when competence dominate intelligence, there will always be suffering'. This is because I like to conceive intelligence as belonging to the heart, not the mind. You have to hate someone to treat it as stupid.

Nice thread Flapjack, I read it all!
(despite or because SWIM loves both Salvia and Machines! :))

Flapjack
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Re: We Must Destroy The Machines!!! -

Post by Flapjack » Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:38 pm

that whole "masuline consciousness", "feminine consciousness" are terms coming from someone else, but I understand what they imply. It is all coming from the brain anyway. The term "mind" can mean a number of things including the entirety of yourself. Intelligence can mean wisdom, understanding and so forth.

I'm not sure if it comes down to machines, but something psychological makes us want to dissociate from our feelings and become "hard." You are almost brought up to percieve ignorance and violence as cool, and there is a desire to become emotionless. Could be cultural.

I think what I was talking about had something to do with immaturity. Not knowing right from wrong, lacking the ability to differentiate between thought and reality, not being able to read emotion and finding great difficulty in expressing yourself.

And so the mind hinders me to properly communicate.

This is all really basic stuff, but I think it was my first persuit toward my own spirituality. In my rambles I recognized the potential prison of the mind and the dissociation it can cause. Most of this was pulled from personal experiences besides the idea of the evil soul sucking machines, but I have to admit that it was also fueled by New Age brain wash.

I also made the fatal mistake of thinking I had figured it all out. I remember saying things like, "Thoughts are lies." Which was probably the only real revelation I had, even though this entire machines conspiracy was a thought, not a direct experience.

To persue personal growth I have to beable to admit that I am wrong. So, maybe destroying the machines is not the answer to all lol!
Last edited by Flapjack on Thu Feb 25, 2010 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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